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Created an account just to state this: tech people please don't go into discussing politics / economics. Brits want to exit EU because of wars in the past? This

Created an account just to state this: tech people please don't go into discussing politics / economics. Brits want to exit EU because of wars in the past? This is ridiculous! What about the real reasons: 1. Britain has 70% of its laws created by the EU by burocrats who were never voted into the office and can't be voted out of the office: Barroso (President of the European Commission) and Von Rumpoy (whatever his name - never elected President of the UE). 70% of British laws are created by unelected foreigners who definitely don't share their anglo-saxon heritage, focusing more on Germany-centered economic views. Germany has always been goods producer. UK has always been a trading nation. You say forcing UK to obey Teutonian laws will prevent future wars and upheaval and I'm telling you it may as well cause them (look at another country not consistent with German economic policies: Greece) Not to mention other things: UK is banned from entering into trade treaties with Canada, Australia, India, and the US - their historical partners - EU has to do it for them! They have to accept EU imposed anti-British customs with India, Australia and Canada because by the EU law they have to trade openly with EU and mustn't with Anglo-Saxon world. And economically - this is killing them. EU exports into UK much more than UK into EU. Why bother? It's not like they will loose business once outside of the block. And other things - newly passed EU laws that will basically kill London's stock exchange and investment banks to keep German tax payers happy. THIS and not history of wars is the cause of 2 in 3 Britons being in favor of EU exit. It's just bad business for them and their economy and nobody in the EU seem to care. As long as the Chancellor is happy.

lispm 14y ago
> Germany has always been goods producer. UK has always been a trading nation Yeah, why has the UK then stopped trading? Btw., I live in a German Hansestadt, which for centuries has been trading with all the known world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League The UK can't trade with the US? Haha, what a joke. Let's face it: the UK has focused on its financial 'industry' and has sold products of questionable quality.
- justincormack 14y ago
  Indeed the UK had a couple of Hanseatic ports, in London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelyard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelyard and King's Lynn. I don't understand people who think a trading nation can survive outside a free trade area either.
  - PoliticsJunkie 14y ago
    UK is outside of tree trade agreements with the Commonwealth (Australia, Canada, etc.) because of its free trade agreement (i.e. EU) with collapsing eurozone. That's not good business for them.
    - justincormack 14y ago
      Well the CETA (Canada EU trade agreement) with zero tariffs and improved labour mobility is close to being settled by the sound of it. It is not clear if the UK would ever manage to negotiate to join NAFTA.
- sbmassey 14y ago
  The Hanseatic league stretched from England to Novgorod, and highlights the strong need for small independent sovereign city states, rather than top-heavy bureaucracies like the EU. The EU is an attempt by the European political classes to copy all the worst parts of the US political system, while ignoring the traditions of political liberty that (used to) make the US actually work. Having said that, I am hopeful that once the EU finally collapses, Europe will be blessed with a lot of small independent competing nation states, so there will be some hope for liberty if the US continues along the path of becoming a modern Byzantium.
  - lispm 14y ago
    > The Hanseatic league stretched from England to Novgorod The Hansa Teutonica had its capital in Lübeck. One possible future of the EU is a union of regions, not nations. The EU will take over much of what the current nations think they are. > I am hopeful that once the EU finally collapses Neither you nor I will see the EU collapse. Just the opposite. It might even expand.
rmc 14y ago
2 or 3 of the countries in the UK are not "Anglo-Saxon" countries, but would be "Celtic" countries. :P Additionally the UK does elect and choose EU legislators, in the European Parliament & Council of Minsiters, European Commission, etc. etc.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- arethuza 14y ago
  Not to mention there is a distinct possibility that the UK will itself break up in the next few years.
  - rmc 14y ago
    Very much depends on how you define "UK will break up". Remember Ireland seceded from the UK in the 1920s. The break up has already begun.
  - PoliticsJunkie 14y ago
    The same goes for Spain, Belgium, Italy... beyond funny - EU advocating continental unity causing break-down even such already small countries as Belgium. Even more funny - Von Rumpoy is from Belgium traveling continent advocating for unity, while his own small country is falling apart into pieces.
    - rmc 14y ago
      I think it makes perfect sense. You have a pan-european state that deals with the big stuff (like human rights) and national ethnic groups for the little stuff. There has been a trend towards large countries breaking up into national/ethnic groupings for almost 200 years in Europe. The phrase "Balkanization" dates, not from the recent Yugoslav wars, but initially from 200 years ago when the Ottoman's were breaking up!
      - PoliticsJunkie 14y ago
_pferreir_ 14y ago
Your opinion surprises me. Everyone else in the EU is pretty much convinced that the UK is just trying to eat the cake and have it. IIRC, the UK has opted out of Schengen and the Euro. That would look OK to me were we not talking of two core EU projects that were supposed to be game changers. Coming from a country that is currently under an European assistance program, I am not myself very fond of the "Chancellor", but your opinion seems to be purely based on the hatred for a particular country and simple anglophilia. It's clear that the EU must have common laws. And it's clear that if the EU is supposed to ever become a superpower in the economic and geopolitical sense, a free trade zone will not suffice. Believe me, European laws don't please everyone. e.g. production quotas have seriously harmed economies that were highly reliant on agricultural production. And regarding Greece... well, Greece has played foul from the beginning. Greek authorities have purposefully reported lower than reality deficit figure as early as 1999. Of course the EU failed there too, and I'm convinced that austerity measures are not the best solution for this mess. But saying that Greece is being "punished" because it has refused to follow a particular model is a clear exaggeration.
- PoliticsJunkie 14y ago
  EU is a failing Project that has chosen to ignore democratic procedures and no-votes for decades. It doesn't work, it never did and it never will. It's basic economics that you can't have the same central bank for two countries like Germany and Greece, isn't it? But not when integration unelected fanatics like ex-marxist Barroso come into play. They don't care about nuances like democratic NOs or economic commonse sense. They want to build this - as you called it - superpower - at all costs and against the people. And people are tired of this nonsense. It may look fine when you sit in Eastern Europe and get all the funds. But think for German taxpayer for a while who now has to pay for your infrastruture, meet your debt obligations in case something goes wrong, and import all the unemployed form your country. How much longer do you think Germans will take it? Of course, it's nice to be on the receiving end. But being in an economic crisis + having your own unemployed + tax hikes for your highways, do you think this makes EU popular among German voters? No, it doesn't. If Germany was given a chance there is a good chance they would opt to exit as well. Eastern Europe is very pro-EU because it is bribed by all the money stolen from the Western Europe. But nobody, really nobody, in the West wants to stay on the board of the Titanic anymore.

lispm 14y ago

> Germany has always been goods producer. UK has always been a trading nation Yeah, why has the UK then stopped trading? Btw., I live in a German Hansestadt, which for centuries has been trading with all the known world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League The UK can't trade with the US? Haha, what a joke. Let's face it: the UK has focused on its financial 'industry' and has sold products of questionable quality.

justincormack 14y ago
Indeed the UK had a couple of Hanseatic ports, in London https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelyard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steelyard and King's Lynn. I don't understand people who think a trading nation can survive outside a free trade area either.
- PoliticsJunkie 14y ago
  UK is outside of tree trade agreements with the Commonwealth (Australia, Canada, etc.) because of its free trade agreement (i.e. EU) with collapsing eurozone. That's not good business for them.
  - justincormack 14y ago
    Well the CETA (Canada EU trade agreement) with zero tariffs and improved labour mobility is close to being settled by the sound of it. It is not clear if the UK would ever manage to negotiate to join NAFTA.
sbmassey 14y ago
The Hanseatic league stretched from England to Novgorod, and highlights the strong need for small independent sovereign city states, rather than top-heavy bureaucracies like the EU. The EU is an attempt by the European political classes to copy all the worst parts of the US political system, while ignoring the traditions of political liberty that (used to) make the US actually work. Having said that, I am hopeful that once the EU finally collapses, Europe will be blessed with a lot of small independent competing nation states, so there will be some hope for liberty if the US continues along the path of becoming a modern Byzantium.
- lispm 14y ago
  > The Hanseatic league stretched from England to Novgorod The Hansa Teutonica had its capital in Lübeck. One possible future of the EU is a union of regions, not nations. The EU will take over much of what the current nations think they are. > I am hopeful that once the EU finally collapses Neither you nor I will see the EU collapse. Just the opposite. It might even expand.

rmc 14y ago

2 or 3 of the countries in the UK are not "Anglo-Saxon" countries, but would be "Celtic" countries. :P Additionally the UK does elect and choose EU legislators, in the European Parliament & Council of Minsiters, European Commission, etc. etc.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
arethuza 14y ago
Not to mention there is a distinct possibility that the UK will itself break up in the next few years.
- rmc 14y ago
  Very much depends on how you define "UK will break up". Remember Ireland seceded from the UK in the 1920s. The break up has already begun.
- PoliticsJunkie 14y ago
  The same goes for Spain, Belgium, Italy... beyond funny - EU advocating continental unity causing break-down even such already small countries as Belgium. Even more funny - Von Rumpoy is from Belgium traveling continent advocating for unity, while his own small country is falling apart into pieces.
  - rmc 14y ago
    I think it makes perfect sense. You have a pan-european state that deals with the big stuff (like human rights) and national ethnic groups for the little stuff. There has been a trend towards large countries breaking up into national/ethnic groupings for almost 200 years in Europe. The phrase "Balkanization" dates, not from the recent Yugoslav wars, but initially from 200 years ago when the Ottoman's were breaking up!
    - PoliticsJunkie 14y ago

_pferreir_ 14y ago

Your opinion surprises me. Everyone else in the EU is pretty much convinced that the UK is just trying to eat the cake and have it. IIRC, the UK has opted out of Schengen and the Euro. That would look OK to me were we not talking of two core EU projects that were supposed to be game changers. Coming from a country that is currently under an European assistance program, I am not myself very fond of the "Chancellor", but your opinion seems to be purely based on the hatred for a particular country and simple anglophilia. It's clear that the EU must have common laws. And it's clear that if the EU is supposed to ever become a superpower in the economic and geopolitical sense, a free trade zone will not suffice. Believe me, European laws don't please everyone. e.g. production quotas have seriously harmed economies that were highly reliant on agricultural production. And regarding Greece... well, Greece has played foul from the beginning. Greek authorities have purposefully reported lower than reality deficit figure as early as 1999. Of course the EU failed there too, and I'm convinced that austerity measures are not the best solution for this mess. But saying that Greece is being "punished" because it has refused to follow a particular model is a clear exaggeration.

PoliticsJunkie 14y ago
EU is a failing Project that has chosen to ignore democratic procedures and no-votes for decades. It doesn't work, it never did and it never will. It's basic economics that you can't have the same central bank for two countries like Germany and Greece, isn't it? But not when integration unelected fanatics like ex-marxist Barroso come into play. They don't care about nuances like democratic NOs or economic commonse sense. They want to build this - as you called it - superpower - at all costs and against the people. And people are tired of this nonsense. It may look fine when you sit in Eastern Europe and get all the funds. But think for German taxpayer for a while who now has to pay for your infrastruture, meet your debt obligations in case something goes wrong, and import all the unemployed form your country. How much longer do you think Germans will take it? Of course, it's nice to be on the receiving end. But being in an economic crisis + having your own unemployed + tax hikes for your highways, do you think this makes EU popular among German voters? No, it doesn't. If Germany was given a chance there is a good chance they would opt to exit as well. Eastern Europe is very pro-EU because it is bribed by all the money stolen from the Western Europe. But nobody, really nobody, in the West wants to stay on the board of the Titanic anymore.