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> I worry about the world that we will be living in when a whole generation has skipped learning the basics the hard way. Have you been schooled in farming? Ra

> I worry about the world that we will be living in when a whole generation has skipped learning the basics the hard way. Have you been schooled in farming? Raising livestock? Milking cattle? Does your ability to cook good food depend upon your ability to till soil and sow seeds? I don't mean that in ass way but re: what other comments said: > it feels like a rich getting richer scenario in all aspects of society That's a problem with society, not technology. Holding back technology won't fix society.

ericmcer 4d ago
The tooling for industrial farming is reliable on the scale of millions though, and the same for any other innovation that has replaced older ways of working. AI is in a weird place because it is not 100% reliable, and we do not know if it ever will be, but we also do not know if it will eventually good enough to where we are irrelevant. If tractors plowed reliably 95% of the time, but unless carefully monitored the other 5% of the time they would blow a big hole in the ground, it would be difficult to abandon your shovel entirely.
scythe 4d ago
>Have you been schooled in farming? Raising livestock? Milking cattle? You're equating life skills to professional skills. I was not taught to milk a cow, but my milk comes from someone who was. The topic is whether software engineers in a professional context learned certain things about software.
- Razengan 4d ago
  > my milk comes from someone who was. Your milk likely comes from an automated milker machine..
sriram_malhar 4d ago
> Have you been schooled in farming? Raising livestock? Milking cattle? Does your ability to cook good food ... Pushing that analogy, AI is the equivalent of automating everything from tilling, growing, all the way to cooking. It is as if the human is involved at the beginning in specifying what they want, and at the end, in plating up the food and consuming the product. The next generation will have no clue about the entire farm-to-table chain. It's not there yet, but rapidly making it a reality. Also, there is no one "tech". Different pieces of technology have different levels of effect on the world, and different timelines in which the world can come to terms with it. AI is the thermonuclear weapon introduced to a musket world ... it came upon us suddenly, and instantly flattened the talent/merit based economy. Now everyone has access to the same exoskeleton; the difference between muscles is not important. The second huge difference between AI (and ordinary tech) is that a literal handful of people are in control of its economics. That kind of power breeds fascism. > That's a problem with society, not technology. Semantics. The tech directly enables the incredible power imbalance, and helps seize the means of consensus and debate and reporting. There is no incentive/mechanism left to fix society. An advanced society like the US is weaponized against vaccines, and social media and AI are to blame.
- Razengan 4d ago
  > That kind of power breeds fascism. uhmmm and what have y'all been doing to prevent fascism and wealth inequality up until the point -before- AI became a thing? What did you do about the mandatory government IDs required to access the internet? What did you do to reduce police brutality and unaccountability in the USA? AI is the ONE thing that COULD give the common peasantry a chance. ..maybe that's why so many fires are being stoked against it.. *thinking emoji*
  - sriram_malhar 4d ago
    You do realize that the same powers that have bred fascism and mandatory id requirement are hand in glove with the AI oligarchs, no? They gain with rampant use of AI disproportionately more than the peasant. The peasantry stands no chance. Unless there is a French Revolution style uprising
    - Razengan 4d ago
      > Unless there is a French Revolution style uprising Yeah civilians are not going to win with weapons anymore. The imbalance there has been ridiculously disproportionate for decades. But the common peon can use AI to look up laws and rights and other information and shit to see what we CAN still do. USE it before they take that away too.
      - sriram_malhar 4d ago
        You can look up laws all night long. Check out all the laws broken by Potus, ICE (just to name a few) on a daily basis. The peasantry is not on the side that enforces the law. AI is. AI is a force multiplier. The more force you have, the more multiples of it you en up with. Flock uses AI to do surveillance at scale. Every cloud service has NSA backdoors.
        Razengan 4d ago
        So we stop AI, uninvent it, what then? We go back to how it was before AI And everyone will have a better life? Let's hear your plan
rwmj 4d ago
I haven't been schooled in farming, but my understanding of food has greatly increased since we started growing our own vegetables.
- Razengan 4d ago
  Yes, but that still has little bearing on actual cooking skills, no?
  - rwmj 4d ago
    Knowing how to go from whatever is fresh today in the garden to a meal is a cooking skill, yes. And how to preserve gluts of fruit, also a skill.
    - Razengan 4d ago
      I mean, if I grow my garden and just provide you with the vegetables, does that affect your cooking skills in any way? In fact, if you divide your time between growing your own produce AND honing your cooking, both of those skills may suffer compared to devoting your time to just focusing on one ability. Otherwise if you try to do everything you'll never be as good as a full-time farmer or a full-time chef. or how about another analogy: Say one day your idea for a dish requires softer or sweeter carrots, etc, but oops you spent the last season only growing crunchier and mellower carrots, what're you gonna do now? With external suppliers you always have a wider choice of ingredients better suited to the end product you want at any given time.
      - sriram_malhar 4d ago
        Constraints are a good thing. I'll get creative with what I have, instead of having to rely on a supply chain that makes everything available to everybody all the time. I don't have to have apples grown on the other side of the planet.
watwut 4d ago
Some people are schooled in farming. Farming is not some kind of lost knowledge people dont practice anymore.
thinkingtoilet 4d ago
>Have you been schooled in farming? Raising livestock? Milking cattle? No! And good thing I'm not a farmer!

ericmcer 4d ago

The tooling for industrial farming is reliable on the scale of millions though, and the same for any other innovation that has replaced older ways of working. AI is in a weird place because it is not 100% reliable, and we do not know if it ever will be, but we also do not know if it will eventually good enough to where we are irrelevant. If tractors plowed reliably 95% of the time, but unless carefully monitored the other 5% of the time they would blow a big hole in the ground, it would be difficult to abandon your shovel entirely.

scythe 4d ago

>Have you been schooled in farming? Raising livestock? Milking cattle? You're equating life skills to professional skills. I was not taught to milk a cow, but my milk comes from someone who was. The topic is whether software engineers in a professional context learned certain things about software.

Razengan 4d ago
> my milk comes from someone who was. Your milk likely comes from an automated milker machine..

sriram_malhar 4d ago

> Have you been schooled in farming? Raising livestock? Milking cattle? Does your ability to cook good food ... Pushing that analogy, AI is the equivalent of automating everything from tilling, growing, all the way to cooking. It is as if the human is involved at the beginning in specifying what they want, and at the end, in plating up the food and consuming the product. The next generation will have no clue about the entire farm-to-table chain. It's not there yet, but rapidly making it a reality. Also, there is no one "tech". Different pieces of technology have different levels of effect on the world, and different timelines in which the world can come to terms with it. AI is the thermonuclear weapon introduced to a musket world ... it came upon us suddenly, and instantly flattened the talent/merit based economy. Now everyone has access to the same exoskeleton; the difference between muscles is not important. The second huge difference between AI (and ordinary tech) is that a literal handful of people are in control of its economics. That kind of power breeds fascism. > That's a problem with society, not technology. Semantics. The tech directly enables the incredible power imbalance, and helps seize the means of consensus and debate and reporting. There is no incentive/mechanism left to fix society. An advanced society like the US is weaponized against vaccines, and social media and AI are to blame.

Razengan 4d ago
> That kind of power breeds fascism. uhmmm and what have y'all been doing to prevent fascism and wealth inequality up until the point -before- AI became a thing? What did you do about the mandatory government IDs required to access the internet? What did you do to reduce police brutality and unaccountability in the USA? AI is the ONE thing that COULD give the common peasantry a chance. ..maybe that's why so many fires are being stoked against it.. *thinking emoji*
- sriram_malhar 4d ago
  You do realize that the same powers that have bred fascism and mandatory id requirement are hand in glove with the AI oligarchs, no? They gain with rampant use of AI disproportionately more than the peasant. The peasantry stands no chance. Unless there is a French Revolution style uprising
  - Razengan 4d ago
    > Unless there is a French Revolution style uprising Yeah civilians are not going to win with weapons anymore. The imbalance there has been ridiculously disproportionate for decades. But the common peon can use AI to look up laws and rights and other information and shit to see what we CAN still do. USE it before they take that away too.
    - sriram_malhar 4d ago
      You can look up laws all night long. Check out all the laws broken by Potus, ICE (just to name a few) on a daily basis. The peasantry is not on the side that enforces the law. AI is. AI is a force multiplier. The more force you have, the more multiples of it you en up with. Flock uses AI to do surveillance at scale. Every cloud service has NSA backdoors.
      - Razengan 4d ago
        So we stop AI, uninvent it, what then? We go back to how it was before AI And everyone will have a better life? Let's hear your plan

rwmj 4d ago

I haven't been schooled in farming, but my understanding of food has greatly increased since we started growing our own vegetables.

Razengan 4d ago
Yes, but that still has little bearing on actual cooking skills, no?
- rwmj 4d ago
  Knowing how to go from whatever is fresh today in the garden to a meal is a cooking skill, yes. And how to preserve gluts of fruit, also a skill.
  - Razengan 4d ago
    I mean, if I grow my garden and just provide you with the vegetables, does that affect your cooking skills in any way? In fact, if you divide your time between growing your own produce AND honing your cooking, both of those skills may suffer compared to devoting your time to just focusing on one ability. Otherwise if you try to do everything you'll never be as good as a full-time farmer or a full-time chef. or how about another analogy: Say one day your idea for a dish requires softer or sweeter carrots, etc, but oops you spent the last season only growing crunchier and mellower carrots, what're you gonna do now? With external suppliers you always have a wider choice of ingredients better suited to the end product you want at any given time.
    - sriram_malhar 4d ago
      Constraints are a good thing. I'll get creative with what I have, instead of having to rely on a supply chain that makes everything available to everybody all the time. I don't have to have apples grown on the other side of the planet.

watwut 4d ago

Some people are schooled in farming. Farming is not some kind of lost knowledge people dont practice anymore.

thinkingtoilet 4d ago

>Have you been schooled in farming? Raising livestock? Milking cattle? No! And good thing I'm not a farmer!