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I disagreed with you and went looking in the article for evidence (yeah bad, epistemologically). I actually found evidence for your point. The largest cause of

I disagreed with you and went looking in the article for evidence (yeah bad, epistemologically). I actually found evidence for your point. The largest cause of fatal crashes is Generally distracted or "lost in thought" (daydreaming) at 64%. That happens to most people,.

tialaramex 7d ago
You can see it in what people say right after an accident, stuff like "He came out of nowhere".
Gigachad 7d ago
The human brain was not designed for a task which requires hours of siting down doing mostly nothing while being hyperfocused the entire time ready to take over in an instant on the rare occasion something happens. While running or cycling your brain is actively engaged keeping yourself upright and avoiding obstacles which keeps you alert.
- nomel 7d ago
  Seems at least somewhat comparable to walking through a forest full of predators, while, say, hunting/gathering. Evidence that is is compatible with our psyche is the fact that we're at 1.19 fatalities per 100 million miles driven, and ~50% of those being booze and/or speeding.
- tialaramex 7d ago
  That's true. Humans are bad at this task. On the railways they have a problem with this too, "Lookout" seems like a ludicrously easy job, but it's basically impossible because you must pay attention to an incredibly boring thing for hours or your friends might die. Getting rid of human lookouts should be a priority but it feels easy and so it's hard to motivate this.
  - annzabelle 7d ago
    This is also a big challenge for airline pilots. The planes mostly fly themselves these days, and most takeoffs and landings are uneventful. Being an airline pilot involves an absolutely massive amount of business as usual and preparation, for the very rare times something happens and you suddenly need a team of very focused experts to solve a difficult problem in a stressful environment.
    - fn-mote 7d ago
      At least they have simulators. Last time I saw a driving simulator I was a teenager. Imagine you had to pass a simulator test involving responding to ANY crisis while driving before your license would be renewed. Rates of driving would plummet. I bet most drivers don’t even correctly handle a flat tire on the expressway.
- throw0101a 7d ago
  > The human brain was not designed for a task which requires hours of siting down doing mostly nothing while […] The average one-way commute time in the US is less than half an hour: * https://www.census.gov/topics/employment/commuting/guidance/acs-1yr.html https://www.census.gov/topics/employment/commuting/guidance/... If you can't pay attention for less than 30 minutes should you really be operating a multi-ton death machine?
  - fn-mote 7d ago
    Their point is that a “driver take over autonomous” mode is useless because nobody would pay attention to their surroundings at all.
  - Gigachad 7d ago
    The average person can't last even the length of an elevator trip without reaching for social media.
- grosswait 6d ago
  I disagree. The human brain reinforces circuitry that is used often, meaning the human brain is generally quite adaptable. Ancient (and modern) hunters sit still and silent for hours waiting for game, with their brains ready to take over in an instant on the rare occasion something happens.
  - estearum 6d ago
    Right but you don't get in car accidents or near-accidents often. Ergo your brain becomes wired for the 99.9999999% of driving that is completely uneventful. Hunters are a self-selecting group of people who enjoy the activity you describe. If you don't like it or can't do it, you just don't do it. Virtually every single adult in America has to drive, however, to live a functional life.
    - kelipso 6d ago
      You are avoiding cars constantly when driving with a non-zero amount of traffic. Way more incidents than predators in the savanna while doing persistence hunting.
      - estearum 6d ago
        Not sure what you're arguing. Your brain gets used to in-distribution events. Car accidents (and the conditions that cause them) are out-of-distribution events. It's that simple.
        kelipso 6d ago
        That’s not how the brain works. It is evolutionary adapted to stay alert for out of distribution events.
        estearum 6d ago
        Correct, and by the time an out of distribution event happens in a car, you are milliseconds from collision (if that). Most car accidents are effectively instantaneous. The fact your brain perks up as a bumper is coming through your side window is not very helpful.
missinglugnut 7d ago
How many of those 64% had their accident because of phones/drugs/recklessness and claimed to be distracted instead? With all the liability and shame involved in fatal crashes there's absolutely no way people are going to honestly self report illegal behavior.
- fn-mote 7d ago
  Phones definitely fall in that category. I’m guessing they are the majority, but I don’t know how to substantiate that. Hopefully police are figuring out that one of the parties in the accident is high while they do the interview.
deleted 7d ago
[deleted]
mostly_harmless 6d ago
no. As per the link, that is 64% of <<distracted driver>> fatalities were "lost in thought". not 64% of <<all>> fatalities. Distracted driving is the 2nd or 3rd largest factor in fatal accidents (behind speed and alcohol I believe). Somewhere around 20-30%. Though this is for fatalities. Distribution is going to be way different for just hospitalization or property damage accidents.

tialaramex 7d ago

You can see it in what people say right after an accident, stuff like "He came out of nowhere".

Gigachad 7d ago

The human brain was not designed for a task which requires hours of siting down doing mostly nothing while being hyperfocused the entire time ready to take over in an instant on the rare occasion something happens. While running or cycling your brain is actively engaged keeping yourself upright and avoiding obstacles which keeps you alert.

nomel 7d ago
Seems at least somewhat comparable to walking through a forest full of predators, while, say, hunting/gathering. Evidence that is is compatible with our psyche is the fact that we're at 1.19 fatalities per 100 million miles driven, and ~50% of those being booze and/or speeding.
tialaramex 7d ago
That's true. Humans are bad at this task. On the railways they have a problem with this too, "Lookout" seems like a ludicrously easy job, but it's basically impossible because you must pay attention to an incredibly boring thing for hours or your friends might die. Getting rid of human lookouts should be a priority but it feels easy and so it's hard to motivate this.
- annzabelle 7d ago
  This is also a big challenge for airline pilots. The planes mostly fly themselves these days, and most takeoffs and landings are uneventful. Being an airline pilot involves an absolutely massive amount of business as usual and preparation, for the very rare times something happens and you suddenly need a team of very focused experts to solve a difficult problem in a stressful environment.
  - fn-mote 7d ago
    At least they have simulators. Last time I saw a driving simulator I was a teenager. Imagine you had to pass a simulator test involving responding to ANY crisis while driving before your license would be renewed. Rates of driving would plummet. I bet most drivers don’t even correctly handle a flat tire on the expressway.
throw0101a 7d ago
> The human brain was not designed for a task which requires hours of siting down doing mostly nothing while […] The average one-way commute time in the US is less than half an hour: * https://www.census.gov/topics/employment/commuting/guidance/acs-1yr.html https://www.census.gov/topics/employment/commuting/guidance/... If you can't pay attention for less than 30 minutes should you really be operating a multi-ton death machine?
- fn-mote 7d ago
  Their point is that a “driver take over autonomous” mode is useless because nobody would pay attention to their surroundings at all.
- Gigachad 7d ago
  The average person can't last even the length of an elevator trip without reaching for social media.
grosswait 6d ago
I disagree. The human brain reinforces circuitry that is used often, meaning the human brain is generally quite adaptable. Ancient (and modern) hunters sit still and silent for hours waiting for game, with their brains ready to take over in an instant on the rare occasion something happens.
- estearum 6d ago
  Right but you don't get in car accidents or near-accidents often. Ergo your brain becomes wired for the 99.9999999% of driving that is completely uneventful. Hunters are a self-selecting group of people who enjoy the activity you describe. If you don't like it or can't do it, you just don't do it. Virtually every single adult in America has to drive, however, to live a functional life.
  - kelipso 6d ago
    You are avoiding cars constantly when driving with a non-zero amount of traffic. Way more incidents than predators in the savanna while doing persistence hunting.
    - estearum 6d ago
      Not sure what you're arguing. Your brain gets used to in-distribution events. Car accidents (and the conditions that cause them) are out-of-distribution events. It's that simple.
      - kelipso 6d ago
        That’s not how the brain works. It is evolutionary adapted to stay alert for out of distribution events.
        estearum 6d ago
        Correct, and by the time an out of distribution event happens in a car, you are milliseconds from collision (if that). Most car accidents are effectively instantaneous. The fact your brain perks up as a bumper is coming through your side window is not very helpful.

missinglugnut 7d ago

How many of those 64% had their accident because of phones/drugs/recklessness and claimed to be distracted instead? With all the liability and shame involved in fatal crashes there's absolutely no way people are going to honestly self report illegal behavior.

fn-mote 7d ago
Phones definitely fall in that category. I’m guessing they are the majority, but I don’t know how to substantiate that. Hopefully police are figuring out that one of the parties in the accident is high while they do the interview.

deleted 7d ago

[deleted]

mostly_harmless 6d ago

no. As per the link, that is 64% of <<distracted driver>> fatalities were "lost in thought". not 64% of <<all>> fatalities. Distracted driving is the 2nd or 3rd largest factor in fatal accidents (behind speed and alcohol I believe). Somewhere around 20-30%. Though this is for fatalities. Distribution is going to be way different for just hospitalization or property damage accidents.