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> It's basically 'user rant' - not what one would expect from a leader. It is absolutely a user rant, but it's entirely appropriate for a leader to call out "t

by dpark 9d ago

> It's basically 'user rant' - not what one would expect from a leader. It is absolutely a user rant, but it's entirely appropriate for a leader to call out "this is not okay; this is a garbage experience". > who are obviously being 'reactive' and moving in a bit of a frenzy. That was the intent. "Fix this." This was an email to a bunch of execs who are capable of driving the actual fixes. If Gates needs to hand hold them through this then they need to be replaced. > A good example of 'leadership' would start out with 'I take responsibility for this' This is vacuous corporate speak, the kind of message you send to shareholders to soothe them. This is not leadership. > hinting and the possible source of flaws, where in the process those things should have been caught... Again, if Gates needs to do this then everyone on the To line is dead weight.

bluegatty 9d ago
completely disagree 1) sending the org into a reactive frenzy on the minor issue when the structural issue is the problem - is bad. He's also pointing them at the symptom and not the cause. 2) 'taking responsibility' is not 'vacuous corporate speak' - that's a terribly cynical view. It's literally the case - the leader takes respnosbility because they failed to set the conditions for the good outcome. Gates failed to institute 'design and usability' as a fundamental aspect of the product and operational culture. The email implies that some underling is to blame which is bad framing. 3) "hinting and the possible source of flaws, where in the process those things should have been caught.." - that's literally his job.
- dpark 9d ago
  > sending the org into a reactive frenzy I don’t see an actual “reactive frenzy” here. I see that Gates started a conversation with the execs he believes are responsible for fixing this mess. And again, these are execs being paid millions. They do not need to be coddled. You are acting as if Gates sent this to a bunch of junior engineers. > ‘taking responsibility' is not 'vacuous corporate speak' - that's a terribly cynical view. It's literally the case - the leader takes respnosbility because they failed to set the conditions for the good outcome. It’s absolutely vacuous to say 'I take responsibility for this' when you are telling a group of people they need to fix their shit. Any CVP/EVP who fails at a job and then hears someone above them take responsibility for the failure knows they are about to be out of a job. > The email implies that some underling is to blame which is bad framing. If by underling you mean “highly paid executives” then sure. At some point people have to take responsibility for their jobs. This wasn’t a failure of some individual engineers. It was a collective failure of a group of executives to deliver a good experience. > "hinting and the possible source of flaws, where in the process those things should have been caught.." - that's literally his job It’s literally not. That’s not what CEOs of large corporations do and Gates wasn’t even CEO at this time. He was in an advisory role. His job was literally to give feedback.
  - throw310822 9d ago
    > I see that Gates started a conversation with the execs he believes are responsible for fixing this mess. I think the point here might be that what created this mess in the first place is the structure of the organisation, not the execs that are temporarily embodying it. It's actually quite clear from the follow-ups, there is nobody who can claim responsibility even for the website, never mind any vision or philosophy spanning multiple media and products. Maybe Gates simply wasn't in the position of doing anything else at that time, or maybe his rant was a clever way to expose this exact problem. But it's pretty obvious that "will someone fix the website" doesn't sound like someone analysing and addressing the root cause of the issue. (However, it's also perfectly possible that this email is just a small part of a bigger conversation at different levels- inform the responsible and patch the immediate issue while more high level analysis and planning takes place elsewhere, informally).
    - dpark 9d ago
      I think the real point is that this is a random email that Gates sent to some execs sharing a bad experience with the product, and some people on HN are trying to take it as a much deeper thing than it really is. A leader should be able to send candid communication to other leaders. A culture where execs are unable to communicate candidly to their peers or other high-level leaders is a toxic one. It would be absurd to insist that every communication needs to be candy coated and framed in terms of “I take responsibility, so here’s a path forward, and I’ll handhold everyone through it.”
      - bluegatty 9d ago
        This is not about candor, it's about framing and respecting what kind of power people have, who is responsible for what. "Hey gang - I know I'm not Dear Leader anymore - and - I don't want to get in the way of your new Dear Leader, but I want to share with you a bad experience I had with this product. A, B, C, D. E .. was really bad. After thinking about it - I think much of this lays at my feet. In the Golden Era of MS we didn't think much about design, or 'Whole Product'. I have to take responsibility for that. But these kinds of outcomes are really bad, and this has to be nipped in the bud now - and in the future. I suggest this probably happened because Product and R&D criss-crossed here, the Release Managers and Product Marketing dropped a lot in between. That there was a ball dropped here must be the responsibility at the VP/Executive level at very least, for not ensuring smooth handoff. Furthermore - that this experience could be so bad means we have to rethink and extend our integration testing all the way to 'end user experience'. Finally, I think you'll need to engender a culture of design right from the start - that's going to take 2-4 years and a different kind of thinking, that is not a fire that can be put out, or a process to be fixed. I'll have to lave that on the lap of the new Dear Leader. Keep up the great work. - BG" That's how to write a 'candid' note.
- robotpepi 9d ago
  > 2) 'taking responsibility' is not 'vacuous corporate speak' - that's a terribly cynical view. It's literally the case - the leader takes respnosbility because they failed to set the conditions for the good outcome. Tbh it seems like you're autistic and simply don't understand how such a "o take responsibility" message really looks like and what effect it'd have.

by dpark 9d ago

bluegatty 9d ago

completely disagree 1) sending the org into a reactive frenzy on the minor issue when the structural issue is the problem - is bad. He's also pointing them at the symptom and not the cause. 2) 'taking responsibility' is not 'vacuous corporate speak' - that's a terribly cynical view. It's literally the case - the leader takes respnosbility because they failed to set the conditions for the good outcome. Gates failed to institute 'design and usability' as a fundamental aspect of the product and operational culture. The email implies that some underling is to blame which is bad framing. 3) "hinting and the possible source of flaws, where in the process those things should have been caught.." - that's literally his job.

dpark 9d ago
> sending the org into a reactive frenzy I don’t see an actual “reactive frenzy” here. I see that Gates started a conversation with the execs he believes are responsible for fixing this mess. And again, these are execs being paid millions. They do not need to be coddled. You are acting as if Gates sent this to a bunch of junior engineers. > ‘taking responsibility' is not 'vacuous corporate speak' - that's a terribly cynical view. It's literally the case - the leader takes respnosbility because they failed to set the conditions for the good outcome. It’s absolutely vacuous to say 'I take responsibility for this' when you are telling a group of people they need to fix their shit. Any CVP/EVP who fails at a job and then hears someone above them take responsibility for the failure knows they are about to be out of a job. > The email implies that some underling is to blame which is bad framing. If by underling you mean “highly paid executives” then sure. At some point people have to take responsibility for their jobs. This wasn’t a failure of some individual engineers. It was a collective failure of a group of executives to deliver a good experience. > "hinting and the possible source of flaws, where in the process those things should have been caught.." - that's literally his job It’s literally not. That’s not what CEOs of large corporations do and Gates wasn’t even CEO at this time. He was in an advisory role. His job was literally to give feedback.
- throw310822 9d ago
  > I see that Gates started a conversation with the execs he believes are responsible for fixing this mess. I think the point here might be that what created this mess in the first place is the structure of the organisation, not the execs that are temporarily embodying it. It's actually quite clear from the follow-ups, there is nobody who can claim responsibility even for the website, never mind any vision or philosophy spanning multiple media and products. Maybe Gates simply wasn't in the position of doing anything else at that time, or maybe his rant was a clever way to expose this exact problem. But it's pretty obvious that "will someone fix the website" doesn't sound like someone analysing and addressing the root cause of the issue. (However, it's also perfectly possible that this email is just a small part of a bigger conversation at different levels- inform the responsible and patch the immediate issue while more high level analysis and planning takes place elsewhere, informally).
  - dpark 9d ago
    I think the real point is that this is a random email that Gates sent to some execs sharing a bad experience with the product, and some people on HN are trying to take it as a much deeper thing than it really is. A leader should be able to send candid communication to other leaders. A culture where execs are unable to communicate candidly to their peers or other high-level leaders is a toxic one. It would be absurd to insist that every communication needs to be candy coated and framed in terms of “I take responsibility, so here’s a path forward, and I’ll handhold everyone through it.”
    - bluegatty 9d ago
      This is not about candor, it's about framing and respecting what kind of power people have, who is responsible for what. "Hey gang - I know I'm not Dear Leader anymore - and - I don't want to get in the way of your new Dear Leader, but I want to share with you a bad experience I had with this product. A, B, C, D. E .. was really bad. After thinking about it - I think much of this lays at my feet. In the Golden Era of MS we didn't think much about design, or 'Whole Product'. I have to take responsibility for that. But these kinds of outcomes are really bad, and this has to be nipped in the bud now - and in the future. I suggest this probably happened because Product and R&D criss-crossed here, the Release Managers and Product Marketing dropped a lot in between. That there was a ball dropped here must be the responsibility at the VP/Executive level at very least, for not ensuring smooth handoff. Furthermore - that this experience could be so bad means we have to rethink and extend our integration testing all the way to 'end user experience'. Finally, I think you'll need to engender a culture of design right from the start - that's going to take 2-4 years and a different kind of thinking, that is not a fire that can be put out, or a process to be fixed. I'll have to lave that on the lap of the new Dear Leader. Keep up the great work. - BG" That's how to write a 'candid' note.
robotpepi 9d ago
> 2) 'taking responsibility' is not 'vacuous corporate speak' - that's a terribly cynical view. It's literally the case - the leader takes respnosbility because they failed to set the conditions for the good outcome. Tbh it seems like you're autistic and simply don't understand how such a "o take responsibility" message really looks like and what effect it'd have.