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I have another suggestion which doesn't contradict yours. When I was younger I used to get bored way more often. I had to wait regularly during a week (e.g. fo

by boudin 9d ago

I have another suggestion which doesn't contradict yours. When I was younger I used to get bored way more often. I had to wait regularly during a week (e.g. for a bus, friend, appointment) or even at work as a software dev (e.g. compilation which used to take more time). This was also the case when doing some physical activities which didn't require lot of thoughts. Back then, before mobile phones with internet access, you were either reading something or alone with your thoughts in those situations. This was when I had time to think back at things that happened, processing the information I had, refining ideas etc. Nowdays those are often situations where we ingest more information like listening to podcast, reading stuff on the phone, etc... or situations that just doesn't exists anymore having optimised our work to remove those waiting points. I personally find myself with clearer thoughts when I break those habits and give my brain some time to be bored again. I do think there is "lack of boreness" epidemic leaving people with way more raw thoughts and way less time to process and challenge information, leading to some form of exhaustion and lack of clarity.

XorNot 9d ago
That seems less likely then people being tired and stressed from the costs of living and the increased economic instability. We have smartphones but we're perilously few missed pay cheques away from not having a house, with a capital class gleefully telling everyone how they'll all be unemployable very soon.
- Folcon 9d ago
  It would be the greatest irony if failing to manage the economic fallout of the coming AI revolution had a larger negative impact than the benefit it brings We might just run into the worst recession in history as the heavily skewed service economy quickly runs out of customers who can afford to pay for it
  - carlosjobim 9d ago
    We're already several years into the worst economic depression in history. People aren't having children because they cannot afford a home. But it can get worse of course.
    - piloto_ciego 9d ago
      The kids thing isn’t an economic thing, read the paper about the iPhone basically being birth control…
    - anon7725 9d ago
      > the worst economic depression in history You need to touch grass, friend. I am as concerned with the direction of things as anyone, but this is extreme hyperbole.
      - carlosjobim 8d ago
        There's nothing extreme about my statement. People have just adapted themselves into extinction, which is what happens to you when you don't have children. Food is cheap and plentiful, which is why people are still denying that it is the worst economic depression in history.
        IAmBroom 8d ago
        So you're saying the complete lack of evidence of economic depression is a mere distraction from the reality that the evidence is just hiding? Is the depression in the room with us now? Can I speak to it?
        carlosjobim 8d ago
        The collapsed birth rates is the evidence. The enormous disparity between worker productivity and worker compensation is the evidence. Economic recession doesn't always spell hunger, it can have other consequences. But seeing the way you are talking, I think you will be uninterested in any and all evidence and more interested in blowing off steam on the internet.
0xcde4c3db 9d ago
I doubt that's the only factor, but I agree that it's almost certainly a factor. The modern "tech" industry has filled our waking hours with unceasing demands to do something. Buy this product, watch this video, listen to this podcast, react to this social media post; even "practice self-care" has somehow turned into an obligatory virtue-cultivating task. We obviously had advertising before, but this is a different beast, something akin to living in a casino. As Bo Burnham put it, "apathy's a tragedy and boredom is a crime".
- deleted 9d ago
  [deleted]
voidhorse 9d ago
Definitely. Much of the structure of internet media encourages constant, passive consumption. Or, to use the terms of the grandparent, we move traded ambient thinking, reflection, and imagination, which the brain is pushed into during boredom, for ambient consumption. I think a lot of people believe that, as long as they consume "high quality" or more intellectual content, the negative effects of constant consumption are mitigated, but I think that's false. It's less about the content and more about the structure and process. If you never give your brain moments to stop basic processing of wildly different inputs and to just critically examine them instead, you will suffer brain rot, even if the content you consume is "educational".
- FinnLobsien 9d ago
  Yes. And I'd also add that so much of it is about context and intention. If you intentionally sit down to enjoy some low-brow entertainment (Maybe a silly action movie or a mediocre rom-com) because you enjoy that, great. But I recently realized that there are podcast episodes from 10 years ago that I still remember parts of, but few from recent years, even though I've listened to far more podcasts (and they haven't become less intellectual).
ProllyInfamous 9d ago
I have another suggestion which doesn't contradict yours: This is only a small part of it (tech addiction 24/7 via phone); certainly there is something bigger at play, here (e.g: "the brain isn't the same anymore;" agreed). I do not use email nor a cell phone (several years; outgoing landline, only), so I have more than enough time to ruminate (and read a few dozen books, annually) – and yet agree very much with OC's theory on needing mental health exercises to replace our newfound AGI tools/workers. As an extremely conversive person (unbound by a cellphone), it's become an extremely strange world, particularly when talking with strangers, even in just the past two years. It's like: everybody is just mentally exhausted, mortal. I know I am. –Phoneless
- p_j_w 9d ago
  Maybe we’re just getting older.
  - poncho_romero 9d ago
    As a young person, I can at least anecdotally say the same thing is happening to people who, while older, ain't old yet.
    - ProllyInfamous 9d ago
      >>We get wise too late... >>...and old too soon. >>–Danish Proverb ---- At early-forties, I don't think I count as "young" anymore. Definitely: growing up without a cell phone was beautiful. I still remember driving around semi-lost, using paper maps, quite fondly (I still print directions). My last partner (eight years my junior) "grew up on her cellphone" and it was just remarkable how fucked her brain was... at least different from my own landlined-childhood POV (e.g: attention-span; need for constant contact). ---- And yet, my brain also enmushifies (lately: increasingly).
      - ChrisLTD 9d ago
        Forties isn’t old. You might not have the energy reserves of a younger person, but you shouldn’t feel like your brain is mush.
carlosjobim 9d ago
Sleep is also a forced meditation, so we can't avoid processing information. But in a different way of course.
- willy_k 9d ago
  We can totally avoid (being conscious of) processing stuff during sleep too. Just take some SSRIs or smoke weed and you wake up in the next day. I think that that has more effect on people than people realize, dreaming is important but many people don’t experience that side of things any more.
  - SjokoladeIsHare 9d ago
    > just sleep and wake up This is my default experience. Falling asleep, then waking up an unknown amount of time later as if nothing happened. Maybe I don’t pay attention to my dreams
    - carlosjobim 9d ago
      If that's the case, you are missing the most important aspect of your life.
      - kwarcode 9d ago
        glib bullshit
      - etrautmann 9d ago
        I don’t remember my dreams most nights and that’s always been the case. When I do it’s fairly disconnected and random vignettes without discernible meaning. So I’m missing one of the most important aspects of my life? I guess it’s possible but it’s hard to feel that way without having experienced profound dreams.
        carlosjobim 8d ago
        Sometimes the meaning doesn't come from you to the dream. It can be how you decide to act in the dream that will shape your subconscious and in turn have influence in your state when awake. For example, if you have a nightmare and decide to attack the threat instead of trying to flee, then almost all fear evaporates from your subconscious.
matt89 9d ago
I too subscribe to theory that "being bored" was an important part of our day to day lives. I think it gave us time to basically decompress and "defragment" our minds, and that is also when a lot of novel ideas or clarifications would come to us. Now having 24/7 entertainment at the tips of our fingers is almost completely removing this extra time from us, and there is much less processing that actually happens.
joemazerino 9d ago
Being bored, showering etc is well known to engage the DMN (Default Mode Network) where your brain connects pieces together from larger, more distant areas together. We as a society are missing this and its obvious.
conductr 9d ago
I’m a champion of boredom. I really feel it’s a life skill. Personally, I do all kinds of things to create space for boredom. But really it’s my kids where I want them to experience some boredom and structure my parenting style somewhat around creating space for their boredom. On their own, they would never be bored a moment of their life. There’s too any screens and amounts of content available and my kids don’t even use the internet/SM, yet.
eudamoniac 9d ago
I will often experience something I call "feeling addled" when I haven't taken this kind of downtime for too long, usually after about two days. It presents as a difficulty in thinking clearly, a compulsion for easy dopamine, and feeling kind of like I've taken too much caffeine. It is disturbing to imagine that this is the constant default for many people now.
pnexk 9d ago
This concept of lack of boreness along with mention of studies was covered in a book called The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter (2021) that made me think about it a lot since I came across it. Amazing to see someone organically mention their experience about something similar.
lanamo 9d ago
Walter Benjamin basically predicted this in The Storyteller (1936) — nearly a century before smartphones: > "If sleep is the apogee of physical relaxation, boredom is the apogee of mental relaxation. Boredom is the dream bird that hatches the egg of experience. A rustling in the leaves drives him away."

by boudin 9d ago

XorNot 9d ago

That seems less likely then people being tired and stressed from the costs of living and the increased economic instability. We have smartphones but we're perilously few missed pay cheques away from not having a house, with a capital class gleefully telling everyone how they'll all be unemployable very soon.

Folcon 9d ago
It would be the greatest irony if failing to manage the economic fallout of the coming AI revolution had a larger negative impact than the benefit it brings We might just run into the worst recession in history as the heavily skewed service economy quickly runs out of customers who can afford to pay for it
- carlosjobim 9d ago
  We're already several years into the worst economic depression in history. People aren't having children because they cannot afford a home. But it can get worse of course.
  - piloto_ciego 9d ago
    The kids thing isn’t an economic thing, read the paper about the iPhone basically being birth control…
  - anon7725 9d ago
    > the worst economic depression in history You need to touch grass, friend. I am as concerned with the direction of things as anyone, but this is extreme hyperbole.
    - carlosjobim 8d ago
      There's nothing extreme about my statement. People have just adapted themselves into extinction, which is what happens to you when you don't have children. Food is cheap and plentiful, which is why people are still denying that it is the worst economic depression in history.
      - IAmBroom 8d ago
        So you're saying the complete lack of evidence of economic depression is a mere distraction from the reality that the evidence is just hiding? Is the depression in the room with us now? Can I speak to it?
        carlosjobim 8d ago
        The collapsed birth rates is the evidence. The enormous disparity between worker productivity and worker compensation is the evidence. Economic recession doesn't always spell hunger, it can have other consequences. But seeing the way you are talking, I think you will be uninterested in any and all evidence and more interested in blowing off steam on the internet.

0xcde4c3db 9d ago

I doubt that's the only factor, but I agree that it's almost certainly a factor. The modern "tech" industry has filled our waking hours with unceasing demands to do something. Buy this product, watch this video, listen to this podcast, react to this social media post; even "practice self-care" has somehow turned into an obligatory virtue-cultivating task. We obviously had advertising before, but this is a different beast, something akin to living in a casino. As Bo Burnham put it, "apathy's a tragedy and boredom is a crime".

deleted 9d ago
[deleted]

voidhorse 9d ago

Definitely. Much of the structure of internet media encourages constant, passive consumption. Or, to use the terms of the grandparent, we move traded ambient thinking, reflection, and imagination, which the brain is pushed into during boredom, for ambient consumption. I think a lot of people believe that, as long as they consume "high quality" or more intellectual content, the negative effects of constant consumption are mitigated, but I think that's false. It's less about the content and more about the structure and process. If you never give your brain moments to stop basic processing of wildly different inputs and to just critically examine them instead, you will suffer brain rot, even if the content you consume is "educational".

FinnLobsien 9d ago
Yes. And I'd also add that so much of it is about context and intention. If you intentionally sit down to enjoy some low-brow entertainment (Maybe a silly action movie or a mediocre rom-com) because you enjoy that, great. But I recently realized that there are podcast episodes from 10 years ago that I still remember parts of, but few from recent years, even though I've listened to far more podcasts (and they haven't become less intellectual).

ProllyInfamous 9d ago

I have another suggestion which doesn't contradict yours: This is only a small part of it (tech addiction 24/7 via phone); certainly there is something bigger at play, here (e.g: "the brain isn't the same anymore;" agreed). I do not use email nor a cell phone (several years; outgoing landline, only), so I have more than enough time to ruminate (and read a few dozen books, annually) – and yet agree very much with OC's theory on needing mental health exercises to replace our newfound AGI tools/workers. As an extremely conversive person (unbound by a cellphone), it's become an extremely strange world, particularly when talking with strangers, even in just the past two years. It's like: everybody is just mentally exhausted, mortal. I know I am. –Phoneless

p_j_w 9d ago
Maybe we’re just getting older.
- poncho_romero 9d ago
  As a young person, I can at least anecdotally say the same thing is happening to people who, while older, ain't old yet.
  - ProllyInfamous 9d ago
    >>We get wise too late... >>...and old too soon. >>–Danish Proverb ---- At early-forties, I don't think I count as "young" anymore. Definitely: growing up without a cell phone was beautiful. I still remember driving around semi-lost, using paper maps, quite fondly (I still print directions). My last partner (eight years my junior) "grew up on her cellphone" and it was just remarkable how fucked her brain was... at least different from my own landlined-childhood POV (e.g: attention-span; need for constant contact). ---- And yet, my brain also enmushifies (lately: increasingly).
    - ChrisLTD 9d ago
      Forties isn’t old. You might not have the energy reserves of a younger person, but you shouldn’t feel like your brain is mush.

carlosjobim 9d ago

Sleep is also a forced meditation, so we can't avoid processing information. But in a different way of course.

willy_k 9d ago
We can totally avoid (being conscious of) processing stuff during sleep too. Just take some SSRIs or smoke weed and you wake up in the next day. I think that that has more effect on people than people realize, dreaming is important but many people don’t experience that side of things any more.
- SjokoladeIsHare 9d ago
  > just sleep and wake up This is my default experience. Falling asleep, then waking up an unknown amount of time later as if nothing happened. Maybe I don’t pay attention to my dreams
  - carlosjobim 9d ago
    If that's the case, you are missing the most important aspect of your life.
    - kwarcode 9d ago
      glib bullshit
    - etrautmann 9d ago
      I don’t remember my dreams most nights and that’s always been the case. When I do it’s fairly disconnected and random vignettes without discernible meaning. So I’m missing one of the most important aspects of my life? I guess it’s possible but it’s hard to feel that way without having experienced profound dreams.
      - carlosjobim 8d ago
        Sometimes the meaning doesn't come from you to the dream. It can be how you decide to act in the dream that will shape your subconscious and in turn have influence in your state when awake. For example, if you have a nightmare and decide to attack the threat instead of trying to flee, then almost all fear evaporates from your subconscious.

matt89 9d ago

I too subscribe to theory that "being bored" was an important part of our day to day lives. I think it gave us time to basically decompress and "defragment" our minds, and that is also when a lot of novel ideas or clarifications would come to us. Now having 24/7 entertainment at the tips of our fingers is almost completely removing this extra time from us, and there is much less processing that actually happens.

joemazerino 9d ago

Being bored, showering etc is well known to engage the DMN (Default Mode Network) where your brain connects pieces together from larger, more distant areas together. We as a society are missing this and its obvious.

conductr 9d ago

I’m a champion of boredom. I really feel it’s a life skill. Personally, I do all kinds of things to create space for boredom. But really it’s my kids where I want them to experience some boredom and structure my parenting style somewhat around creating space for their boredom. On their own, they would never be bored a moment of their life. There’s too any screens and amounts of content available and my kids don’t even use the internet/SM, yet.

eudamoniac 9d ago

I will often experience something I call "feeling addled" when I haven't taken this kind of downtime for too long, usually after about two days. It presents as a difficulty in thinking clearly, a compulsion for easy dopamine, and feeling kind of like I've taken too much caffeine. It is disturbing to imagine that this is the constant default for many people now.

pnexk 9d ago

This concept of lack of boreness along with mention of studies was covered in a book called The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter (2021) that made me think about it a lot since I came across it. Amazing to see someone organically mention their experience about something similar.

lanamo 9d ago

Walter Benjamin basically predicted this in The Storyteller (1936) — nearly a century before smartphones: > "If sleep is the apogee of physical relaxation, boredom is the apogee of mental relaxation. Boredom is the dream bird that hatches the egg of experience. A rustling in the leaves drives him away."