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Duolingo has nothing to do with self improvement, it's just a shiny presentation for highly addictive game. We should reward quality of engagement, not just le

Duolingo has nothing to do with self improvement, it's just a shiny presentation for highly addictive game. We should reward quality of engagement, not just length of it.

ACCount37 10d ago
"Quality of engagement" is as hard to measure as "length of engagement" is easy.
watwut 10d ago
People love to hate Duolingo, but I actually learned things on it getting real results. And it showed me that language learning does not have to be massive suck. All in all, it is actually one app that is beneficial or at least harmless.
- TFNA 10d ago
  When did you use it? It was a more authentic language-learning tool in the beginning, but was then gradually enshittified in order to maximize engagement on the platform, not actual language mastery. A lot of the most competent language-consultant staff were let go, too. Today on the shadow libraries, you have your pick of a number of self-teaching textbooks for free, allowing you to find an approach that fits your learning style. No need to rely on a dodgy corporate app.
  - watwut 10d ago
    After it was "gradually enshittified in order to maximize engagement on the platform, not actual language mastery". I used it first time years before, stopped, came back after supposed enshittification, started entirely different language and had actual success with it. > Today on the shadow libraries, you have your pick of a number of self-teaching textbooks for free No, self teaching textbooks are not better for me.
    - eudamoniac 10d ago
      What is "actual success?" Because I'd find it pretty unbelievable that you got even close to being able to hold a conversation or read a YA novel from Duolingo.
      - trueno 10d ago
        i think anyone who's done even a modicum of research knows that holding a conversation isnt going to come from an app or a library and actually being out there having convos with either a tutor or just all out immersion is required. then reading literature, consuming media in the other language yes your point is made duolingo isnt going to do these things for you. those initial stages of learning another language even the enshittified duolingo can help get a basic framework going. is it the best resource no absolutely not but it certainly can let people get their feet wet and even doing that is an "actual success" especially if it's something they otherwise wouldn't do.
        eudamoniac 9d ago
        Getting feet wet is not a success though because it doesn't achieve anything. It is the beginning of maybe succeeding at something. The following sentence would be silly: "I used an app to learn programming, by writing hello world, and had actual success with it."
        watwut 9d ago
        Except that getting feet wet here means "making you capable to progress by reading literature and watch movies". That is more then just writing hello word. That is equivalent of "taught me basic programming, so I was able to write my first javascript game and continue learning by doing own projects". That definitely has large value for someone at 0.
        trueno 9d ago
        > Getting feet wet is not a success though It literally is maybe not by your metric but someone elses metric that can absolutely be a success. Sometimes getting up in the morning is a success for people I've been there I know what that's like. I'm kind of amused at the gatekeeping of what a 'success' is here. Guy said he has literally learned things that have stuck with him sounds like something he marks as a success to me, not like he was taking the course for college credit and had to demonstrate fluency lol edit: yea the guy is now consuming media in a foreign language and has had small convos based on what he learned on duolingo. idk man smells like success

Duolingo has nothing to do with self improvement, it's just a shiny presentation for highly addictive game. We should reward quality of engagement, not just length of it.

ACCount37 10d ago

"Quality of engagement" is as hard to measure as "length of engagement" is easy.

watwut 10d ago

People love to hate Duolingo, but I actually learned things on it getting real results. And it showed me that language learning does not have to be massive suck. All in all, it is actually one app that is beneficial or at least harmless.

TFNA 10d ago
When did you use it? It was a more authentic language-learning tool in the beginning, but was then gradually enshittified in order to maximize engagement on the platform, not actual language mastery. A lot of the most competent language-consultant staff were let go, too. Today on the shadow libraries, you have your pick of a number of self-teaching textbooks for free, allowing you to find an approach that fits your learning style. No need to rely on a dodgy corporate app.
- watwut 10d ago
  After it was "gradually enshittified in order to maximize engagement on the platform, not actual language mastery". I used it first time years before, stopped, came back after supposed enshittification, started entirely different language and had actual success with it. > Today on the shadow libraries, you have your pick of a number of self-teaching textbooks for free No, self teaching textbooks are not better for me.
  - eudamoniac 10d ago
    What is "actual success?" Because I'd find it pretty unbelievable that you got even close to being able to hold a conversation or read a YA novel from Duolingo.
    - trueno 10d ago
      i think anyone who's done even a modicum of research knows that holding a conversation isnt going to come from an app or a library and actually being out there having convos with either a tutor or just all out immersion is required. then reading literature, consuming media in the other language yes your point is made duolingo isnt going to do these things for you. those initial stages of learning another language even the enshittified duolingo can help get a basic framework going. is it the best resource no absolutely not but it certainly can let people get their feet wet and even doing that is an "actual success" especially if it's something they otherwise wouldn't do.
      - eudamoniac 9d ago
        Getting feet wet is not a success though because it doesn't achieve anything. It is the beginning of maybe succeeding at something. The following sentence would be silly: "I used an app to learn programming, by writing hello world, and had actual success with it."
        watwut 9d ago
        Except that getting feet wet here means "making you capable to progress by reading literature and watch movies". That is more then just writing hello word. That is equivalent of "taught me basic programming, so I was able to write my first javascript game and continue learning by doing own projects". That definitely has large value for someone at 0.
        trueno 9d ago
        > Getting feet wet is not a success though It literally is maybe not by your metric but someone elses metric that can absolutely be a success. Sometimes getting up in the morning is a success for people I've been there I know what that's like. I'm kind of amused at the gatekeeping of what a 'success' is here. Guy said he has literally learned things that have stuck with him sounds like something he marks as a success to me, not like he was taking the course for college credit and had to demonstrate fluency lol edit: yea the guy is now consuming media in a foreign language and has had small convos based on what he learned on duolingo. idk man smells like success