5 ms·

Yes RCS is barely a standard worth implementing, let alone the best one. Make SMS/MMS and XMPP work together seamlessly in one app, forget RCS.

by NewJazz 10d ago

wolvoleo 10d ago
Yes RCS is a pig with lipstick. Invented by the carriers to recoup some control over instant messaging, then abandoned and picked up by Google for the same reason. They're the ones that added encryption to it. It was always meant to be a walled garden. Exactly what an open system shouldn't be.
- grapheneos 10d ago
  RCS is important because it provides end-to-end encryption (E2EE) for contacts with Google Messages and iOS. That means having E2EE for the vast majority of smartphone users since Google Messages is the standard GMS Android carrier-based messaging app. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49593026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49593026
Geezus_42 10d ago
Remember Pidgin and Trillium?
- DANmode 10d ago
  I remember who forced me to consider other options.
- NewJazz 10d ago
  I use cheogram daily.
  - Geezus_42 3d ago
    Seems neat. Do you write your own connectors or have you found ones written by others? It looks like first party is very limited and I didn't see a link to any community listing.
grapheneos 10d ago
It's important for us to provide out-of-the-box end-to-end encrypted (E2EE) messaging for contacts on Google Messages and iOS. Both Google Messages and iOS provide RCS with end-to-end encryption via Messaging Layer Security (MLS). Google Messages is the standard text messaging app on Google Mobile Services Android and iOS now also supports RCS with MLS. The vast majority of people have an E2EE messaging app on their smartphone and it's important for us to provide compatibility with it. Currently, a growing number of our users are installing Google Messages to have better usability and privacy for texting with contacts on Google Messages and iOS. People can already install the messaging apps of their choice on GrapheneOS. It would go against our approach to choose specific messaging apps and protocols to bundle with the OS beyond SMS/MMS/RCS. We shouldn't be the ones choosing Signal vs. SimpleX vs. Element or other options but rather that's up to users to decide. We need a messaging app to handle carrier-based messaging in the OS including providing end-to-end encryption for it and the rest is up to other open source developers.
- NewJazz 10d ago
  It would go against our approach to choose specific messaging apps and protocols to bundle with the OS beyond SMS/MMS/RCS. We shouldn't be the ones choosing Signal vs. SimpleX vs. Element or other options but rather that's up to users to decide. I disagree with this somewhat. Apple and Google make these sweeping decisions for their users and in effect promote one tech over another. Adopting RCS and integrating it natively, but shunning open protocols and leaving them for third party apps (with probably worse OS integration) means you are following, not leading. I would at least consider shifting approaches somewhere down the line. Yes, there are a plethora of open messaging protocols out there, but adopting one for first party integration doesn't prevent the others from being used.
  - Cider9986 10d ago
    I agree. The OS maker has a ton of power with the default apps and putting SMS and phone calls as the default communication platform of the OS is contrary to the goals of giving people more privacy. And the OS should come with a GrapheneOS Monero wallet to compete with Google Wallet/Apple Pay.
Walf 10d ago
Unless one wants interoperability with other people who use Apple and "Samsung" (because they don't know the word Android refers to an OS). It's a de facto standard now, whether you like it or not.

Yes RCS is barely a standard worth implementing, let alone the best one. Make SMS/MMS and XMPP work together seamlessly in one app, forget RCS.

by NewJazz 10d ago

Yes RCS is barely a standard worth implementing, let alone the best one. Make SMS/MMS and XMPP work together seamlessly in one app, forget RCS.

wolvoleo 10d ago

Yes RCS is a pig with lipstick. Invented by the carriers to recoup some control over instant messaging, then abandoned and picked up by Google for the same reason. They're the ones that added encryption to it. It was always meant to be a walled garden. Exactly what an open system shouldn't be.

grapheneos 10d ago
RCS is important because it provides end-to-end encryption (E2EE) for contacts with Google Messages and iOS. That means having E2EE for the vast majority of smartphone users since Google Messages is the standard GMS Android carrier-based messaging app. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49593026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49593026

Geezus_42 10d ago

Remember Pidgin and Trillium?

DANmode 10d ago
I remember who forced me to consider other options.
NewJazz 10d ago
I use cheogram daily.
- Geezus_42 3d ago
  Seems neat. Do you write your own connectors or have you found ones written by others? It looks like first party is very limited and I didn't see a link to any community listing.

grapheneos 10d ago

It's important for us to provide out-of-the-box end-to-end encrypted (E2EE) messaging for contacts on Google Messages and iOS. Both Google Messages and iOS provide RCS with end-to-end encryption via Messaging Layer Security (MLS). Google Messages is the standard text messaging app on Google Mobile Services Android and iOS now also supports RCS with MLS. The vast majority of people have an E2EE messaging app on their smartphone and it's important for us to provide compatibility with it. Currently, a growing number of our users are installing Google Messages to have better usability and privacy for texting with contacts on Google Messages and iOS. People can already install the messaging apps of their choice on GrapheneOS. It would go against our approach to choose specific messaging apps and protocols to bundle with the OS beyond SMS/MMS/RCS. We shouldn't be the ones choosing Signal vs. SimpleX vs. Element or other options but rather that's up to users to decide. We need a messaging app to handle carrier-based messaging in the OS including providing end-to-end encryption for it and the rest is up to other open source developers.

NewJazz 10d ago
It would go against our approach to choose specific messaging apps and protocols to bundle with the OS beyond SMS/MMS/RCS. We shouldn't be the ones choosing Signal vs. SimpleX vs. Element or other options but rather that's up to users to decide. I disagree with this somewhat. Apple and Google make these sweeping decisions for their users and in effect promote one tech over another. Adopting RCS and integrating it natively, but shunning open protocols and leaving them for third party apps (with probably worse OS integration) means you are following, not leading. I would at least consider shifting approaches somewhere down the line. Yes, there are a plethora of open messaging protocols out there, but adopting one for first party integration doesn't prevent the others from being used.
- Cider9986 10d ago
  I agree. The OS maker has a ton of power with the default apps and putting SMS and phone calls as the default communication platform of the OS is contrary to the goals of giving people more privacy. And the OS should come with a GrapheneOS Monero wallet to compete with Google Wallet/Apple Pay.

Walf 10d ago

Unless one wants interoperability with other people who use Apple and "Samsung" (because they don't know the word Android refers to an OS). It's a de facto standard now, whether you like it or not.