6 ms·

> We are stopping, but the Resistance and ideas do not stop. Stay human. How will that be if the resistance is not visible to the public. What are all the peop

> We are stopping, but the Resistance and ideas do not stop. Stay human. How will that be if the resistance is not visible to the public. What are all the people using their services supposed to do? I’m guessing there are plans to reform in a few years. Why is the Italian government not protecting them?

oblongsquare69 10d ago
I take it as, talk to people in real life and don’t rely on systems that can be shut down.
lambda 10d ago
The Italian government is also a far-right government like the US, so is aligned in wanting to suppress left-wing views.
- mdp2021 10d ago
  Bring evidence that the actions of the two are really comparable. Surprise us (it will take some effort).
- mitxela 10d ago
  [dead]
unfocso 10d ago
>Why is the Italian government not protecting them? The Italian police wiretapped them for one year without them knowing.
- mdp2021 10d ago
  > wiretapped them for one year Can you share the source? I don't have it. Note: one big issue in the whole event is that this prosecution is happening without a transparent judgement.
  - ithkuil 10d ago
    You can read about the Italian police obtained the encryption keys through the Aruba colocation provider in the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autistici/Inventati https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autistici/Inventati Italian Postal Police wiretapping (2004–2005)
- mitxela 10d ago
  [dead]
- mitxela 10d ago
  Did they prosecute? Or did they investigate and find nothing wrong ?
K0balt 10d ago
Resistance and revolution happened before the internet. People have become lazy and complacent, and want their resistance served up over the wire. Thats not how real resistance happens, but it does make people feel like they are doing something, sucking up their energy while the biggest impact is TikTok memes, the modern version of the sternly worded letter. This is exactly where the power structures want the struggle to be , online, with no real consequences that matter. The best thing that could happen to the internet and society would be that it would be absolutely illegal to post anything inciting resistance or change of any kind on the internet. Then, the resistance would go back to being real people in real rooms, secrets and whispers and actual plots to effect change in society for a more equitable and prosperous human future. Because that’s how real change takes place. The powerful don’t try to make change by posting on instagram. (Advertisement and PR of course, but it’s not the organizational nexus) they gather in conference rooms, talk in person, and have social gatherings where they decide your future. When they do use the internet to coordinate, it’s not in public forums, it’s encrypted communications, targeted and limited in scope. The internet is useful, of course, and encrypted communication in private groups, even darkweb resources. But thinking you can use the official structure of the internet (public domain infrastructure, dns, walled gardens) as a primary means of subverting the dominant paradigm is foolish at best, suicidally counterproductive on the normative. The internet was once subversive in and of itself. It no longer is. Now you’re just wearing signs at the mall. The revolution thrives underground, not out in the open.
- mitxela 10d ago
  [dead]
- mitxela 10d ago
  A caveat: people would have to be talking to each other to talk about resistance to each other. They don't. Underground resistance forms out of existing "underground" social networks - social clubs, friends, people who know each other through any means. There's no longer any underground socialising at scale. We use the internet for it, where talk of resistance is strictly banned. Even when you talk offline it's monitored. If you talk in the vicinity of an LG TV, it's converting your speech to text and uploading it to their servers, ostensibly for AI training.
akhasg 10d ago
You go offline. Paper flyers and meetings are much more effective anyway. It is also not like Palestinian activism is blocked on X, despite people here saying that only Nazis are on X and everything is censored: https://x.com/intifada https://x.com/intifada
- mitxela 10d ago
  Controlled opposition is sometimes allowed on X.
Normal_gaussian 10d ago
It should be noted that this is a very sensible thing to say even if you are not stopping; the only case where you cannot say this is if you are carrying on with the same branding, which is typically necessary if you are carrying forwards funds (which have been seized) or brand recognition (which may not be important for a group who focuses on interpersonal relationships).
9763268964 10d ago
[flagged]

oblongsquare69 10d ago

I take it as, talk to people in real life and don’t rely on systems that can be shut down.

lambda 10d ago

The Italian government is also a far-right government like the US, so is aligned in wanting to suppress left-wing views.

mdp2021 10d ago
Bring evidence that the actions of the two are really comparable. Surprise us (it will take some effort).
mitxela 10d ago
[dead]

unfocso 10d ago

>Why is the Italian government not protecting them? The Italian police wiretapped them for one year without them knowing.

mdp2021 10d ago
> wiretapped them for one year Can you share the source? I don't have it. Note: one big issue in the whole event is that this prosecution is happening without a transparent judgement.
- ithkuil 10d ago
  You can read about the Italian police obtained the encryption keys through the Aruba colocation provider in the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autistici/Inventati https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autistici/Inventati Italian Postal Police wiretapping (2004–2005)
mitxela 10d ago
[dead]
mitxela 10d ago
Did they prosecute? Or did they investigate and find nothing wrong ?

K0balt 10d ago

Resistance and revolution happened before the internet. People have become lazy and complacent, and want their resistance served up over the wire. Thats not how real resistance happens, but it does make people feel like they are doing something, sucking up their energy while the biggest impact is TikTok memes, the modern version of the sternly worded letter. This is exactly where the power structures want the struggle to be , online, with no real consequences that matter. The best thing that could happen to the internet and society would be that it would be absolutely illegal to post anything inciting resistance or change of any kind on the internet. Then, the resistance would go back to being real people in real rooms, secrets and whispers and actual plots to effect change in society for a more equitable and prosperous human future. Because that’s how real change takes place. The powerful don’t try to make change by posting on instagram. (Advertisement and PR of course, but it’s not the organizational nexus) they gather in conference rooms, talk in person, and have social gatherings where they decide your future. When they do use the internet to coordinate, it’s not in public forums, it’s encrypted communications, targeted and limited in scope. The internet is useful, of course, and encrypted communication in private groups, even darkweb resources. But thinking you can use the official structure of the internet (public domain infrastructure, dns, walled gardens) as a primary means of subverting the dominant paradigm is foolish at best, suicidally counterproductive on the normative. The internet was once subversive in and of itself. It no longer is. Now you’re just wearing signs at the mall. The revolution thrives underground, not out in the open.

mitxela 10d ago
[dead]
mitxela 10d ago
A caveat: people would have to be talking to each other to talk about resistance to each other. They don't. Underground resistance forms out of existing "underground" social networks - social clubs, friends, people who know each other through any means. There's no longer any underground socialising at scale. We use the internet for it, where talk of resistance is strictly banned. Even when you talk offline it's monitored. If you talk in the vicinity of an LG TV, it's converting your speech to text and uploading it to their servers, ostensibly for AI training.

akhasg 10d ago

You go offline. Paper flyers and meetings are much more effective anyway. It is also not like Palestinian activism is blocked on X, despite people here saying that only Nazis are on X and everything is censored: https://x.com/intifada https://x.com/intifada

mitxela 10d ago
Controlled opposition is sometimes allowed on X.

Normal_gaussian 10d ago

It should be noted that this is a very sensible thing to say even if you are not stopping; the only case where you cannot say this is if you are carrying on with the same branding, which is typically necessary if you are carrying forwards funds (which have been seized) or brand recognition (which may not be important for a group who focuses on interpersonal relationships).

9763268964 10d ago

[flagged]