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I think we are stronger together. European technology has been critical to many important American space missions, and that should continue to be the case. An

I think we are stronger together. European technology has been critical to many important American space missions, and that should continue to be the case. An ecosystem where we develop things independently is one where everyone loses.

cyanydeez 12d ago
The opinion of american billionaires is driving this.
samrus 12d ago
I dont think the EU is stronger when they get bullied and undermined by trump, or whichever american president decides to dust off trump's playbook in the future
- zormino 12d ago
  I think the stronger together argument implies good faith co-operation on both sides
  - samrus 11d ago
    Yeah. Exactly. Thats not a guarantee anymore
    - manlymuppet 11d ago
      It never was a guarantee. But it is worth fighting for cooperation, rather than accepting it cannot be anymore.
eps 12d ago
> I think we are stronger together That's pretty damn obvious to everyone with a half of brain, yet here we are being pulled apart.
- panick21_ 11d ago
  Except its not actually obvious. The US achieved most when they worked mostly by themselves. And the recent explosion in US activity, specially SpaceX is also highly separated from Europe. There is a very credible argument to be made that excessive cooperation leads to incredibly heavy overly political programs that are completely static and can't adjust because of international agreements. That doesn't mean working together isn't good but they way they have been has been pretty questionably in many ways (along with a lot of space policy).
  - pvaldes 10d ago
    > And the recent explosion in US activity, specially SpaceX is also highly separated from Europe. If any of this machines use Python or Linux internally, then we could find some obvious connections with Europe and the people at charge of it.
    - panick21_ 10d ago
      Of course but that isn't part of government to government cooperation. I'm not saying no supply chains reach to other countries.
hypfer 12d ago
Yes, definitely, but being together by choice instead of by necessity is vastly preferable. Especially given that recent history has shown us that we're back to "power" being the only language spoken. __ Rel: The ecosystem thing. I would challenge that, because if there's one thing where the US has had absurd leverage over the EU (and world, for that matter), then it's tech ecosystems. A healthy ecosystem would not be owned by SV/US alone. So right now, we're not really "strong together" but rather weakly dependent. That should be remediated, and decoupling like this is exactly the tool for that.
- PorciiVorbesc 12d ago
  >Especially given that recent history has shown us that we're back to "power" being the only language spoken. "Power being the only language spoken", never left in the first place in order to get back to it, it's how the world always worked and will always work. Granted, power wasn't actually the "language spoken", but more accurately it was the stick ensuring the enforcement of the terms agreed within the "language spoken", a lesson as old as time that many in EU forgot after post-USSR collapse and now have to re-learn it, but at a heavy cost and with added interest. "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it", couldn't be more true.
  - UpsideDownRide 12d ago
    Always is such a strong word.
    - PorciiVorbesc 11d ago
      Where did I use "always"?

cyanydeez 12d ago

The opinion of american billionaires is driving this.

samrus 12d ago

I dont think the EU is stronger when they get bullied and undermined by trump, or whichever american president decides to dust off trump's playbook in the future

zormino 12d ago
I think the stronger together argument implies good faith co-operation on both sides
- samrus 11d ago
  Yeah. Exactly. Thats not a guarantee anymore
  - manlymuppet 11d ago
    It never was a guarantee. But it is worth fighting for cooperation, rather than accepting it cannot be anymore.

eps 12d ago

> I think we are stronger together That's pretty damn obvious to everyone with a half of brain, yet here we are being pulled apart.

panick21_ 11d ago
Except its not actually obvious. The US achieved most when they worked mostly by themselves. And the recent explosion in US activity, specially SpaceX is also highly separated from Europe. There is a very credible argument to be made that excessive cooperation leads to incredibly heavy overly political programs that are completely static and can't adjust because of international agreements. That doesn't mean working together isn't good but they way they have been has been pretty questionably in many ways (along with a lot of space policy).
- pvaldes 10d ago
  > And the recent explosion in US activity, specially SpaceX is also highly separated from Europe. If any of this machines use Python or Linux internally, then we could find some obvious connections with Europe and the people at charge of it.
  - panick21_ 10d ago
    Of course but that isn't part of government to government cooperation. I'm not saying no supply chains reach to other countries.

hypfer 12d ago

Yes, definitely, but being together by choice instead of by necessity is vastly preferable. Especially given that recent history has shown us that we're back to "power" being the only language spoken. __ Rel: The ecosystem thing. I would challenge that, because if there's one thing where the US has had absurd leverage over the EU (and world, for that matter), then it's tech ecosystems. A healthy ecosystem would not be owned by SV/US alone. So right now, we're not really "strong together" but rather weakly dependent. That should be remediated, and decoupling like this is exactly the tool for that.

PorciiVorbesc 12d ago
>Especially given that recent history has shown us that we're back to "power" being the only language spoken. "Power being the only language spoken", never left in the first place in order to get back to it, it's how the world always worked and will always work. Granted, power wasn't actually the "language spoken", but more accurately it was the stick ensuring the enforcement of the terms agreed within the "language spoken", a lesson as old as time that many in EU forgot after post-USSR collapse and now have to re-learn it, but at a heavy cost and with added interest. "Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it", couldn't be more true.
- UpsideDownRide 12d ago
  Always is such a strong word.
  - PorciiVorbesc 11d ago
    Where did I use "always"?