6 ms·

Is it? Wealth is used as a proxy for virtue, and has been for a long time. "Nobility" has two meanings, after all. Why the same word, if not the same root senti

Is it? Wealth is used as a proxy for virtue, and has been for a long time. "Nobility" has two meanings, after all. Why the same word, if not the same root sentiment? Unless one definition was originally meant sarcastically.

conception 11d ago
It definitely benefits those with power to have it being considered such. Eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
zorked 11d ago
Is it? Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. [I]t is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” This guy is pretty influential in at least half the globe.
- deleted 10d ago
  [deleted]
- underlipton 10d ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49582188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49582188 That's at least one sector of the Christian world that ignores that line. I don't think they're alone. You also have other etymological canaries like "fortune" meaning both "wealth" and "blessing". The thinking is that good things happen to good people, with "good things" including "coming into money". But, as we see, that seems to be erroneous. Just because good things happen to a person doesn't mean that they're good.
- mdp2021 9d ago
  You are reading the term too literally. (And by the way, you are using a severely outdated translation.)
tontonius 11d ago
Wait, what does nobility mean other than aristocracy?
- sparky_z 11d ago
  You've never heard something selfless and good described as "noble"?
- mdp2021 9d ago
  > what does nobility mean other than aristocracy "Noble" means "known". "Aristos" means "best" (best fit). The "noble" (the notables) are empowered ("-cracy") for being the best ("aristos"). Moral qualities, practical abilities, enabling the exercise of a role in society.
dinfinity 11d ago
You're countering logic rooted in psychology and economics with etymology and linguistics? How does "ancient people consider the wealthy virtuous" cancel out "selfish people tend to make more money"?
- underlipton 10d ago
  You presented it as something we should have known, because it's logical (and it is). But the problem is that we apparently don't know it, and haven't for some time. It appears as if (part of) humanity has gotten it wrong for so long that it's written into our language.
  - dinfinity 10d ago
    Nonsense. The logic based on etymology doesn't show that at all. Most people alive right have never even used the word "nobility", let alone do they let their worldview be defined by it. They may have used the word "noble", but very probably did not link that to wealth.
    - mdp2021 9d ago
      > Most people alive... have never even used the word... let alone do they let their worldview be defined by it Support your statements, show it. Most people alive would have not been informed on basic ethics, nor basic language?!
      - dinfinity 9d ago
        I made and supported my initial claim. The burden of proof here is on the person who claimed that the etymology of "nobility" somehow disproves my initial claim.
        mdp2021 9d ago
        > my initial claim Not your initial claim: the claim of the median human not being aware of basic dictionary and ethics. Of course psychopathy as lack of restraint facilitates amassing riches. To state the absence of family and schools and contact with books for a majority indicates a weird world view, or an impossibility to put heterogeneous populations in the same basket.

conception 11d ago

It definitely benefits those with power to have it being considered such. Eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology

zorked 11d ago

Is it? Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. [I]t is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” This guy is pretty influential in at least half the globe.

deleted 10d ago
[deleted]
underlipton 10d ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49582188 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49582188 That's at least one sector of the Christian world that ignores that line. I don't think they're alone. You also have other etymological canaries like "fortune" meaning both "wealth" and "blessing". The thinking is that good things happen to good people, with "good things" including "coming into money". But, as we see, that seems to be erroneous. Just because good things happen to a person doesn't mean that they're good.
mdp2021 9d ago
You are reading the term too literally. (And by the way, you are using a severely outdated translation.)

tontonius 11d ago

Wait, what does nobility mean other than aristocracy?

sparky_z 11d ago
You've never heard something selfless and good described as "noble"?
mdp2021 9d ago
> what does nobility mean other than aristocracy "Noble" means "known". "Aristos" means "best" (best fit). The "noble" (the notables) are empowered ("-cracy") for being the best ("aristos"). Moral qualities, practical abilities, enabling the exercise of a role in society.

dinfinity 11d ago

You're countering logic rooted in psychology and economics with etymology and linguistics? How does "ancient people consider the wealthy virtuous" cancel out "selfish people tend to make more money"?

underlipton 10d ago
You presented it as something we should have known, because it's logical (and it is). But the problem is that we apparently don't know it, and haven't for some time. It appears as if (part of) humanity has gotten it wrong for so long that it's written into our language.
- dinfinity 10d ago
  Nonsense. The logic based on etymology doesn't show that at all. Most people alive right have never even used the word "nobility", let alone do they let their worldview be defined by it. They may have used the word "noble", but very probably did not link that to wealth.
  - mdp2021 9d ago
    > Most people alive... have never even used the word... let alone do they let their worldview be defined by it Support your statements, show it. Most people alive would have not been informed on basic ethics, nor basic language?!
    - dinfinity 9d ago
      I made and supported my initial claim. The burden of proof here is on the person who claimed that the etymology of "nobility" somehow disproves my initial claim.
      - mdp2021 9d ago
        > my initial claim Not your initial claim: the claim of the median human not being aware of basic dictionary and ethics. Of course psychopathy as lack of restraint facilitates amassing riches. To state the absence of family and schools and contact with books for a majority indicates a weird world view, or an impossibility to put heterogeneous populations in the same basket.