13 ms·

The problem in the US is that the government doesn't necessarily have all of your details. Most people's ID is a driver's license, but you're not mandated to ha

by mixdup 12d ago

The problem in the US is that the government doesn't necessarily have all of your details. Most people's ID is a driver's license, but you're not mandated to have one of those. The federal government doesn't control those databases (hi, REAL ID), and few people actually have passports. Your citizenship documents are just a birth certificate that is an image on file with a particular state's health department. A centralized identification system on that scale in the US would take generations to get up and running

miki123211 12d ago
And then there's the problem of undocummented / illegal immigrants that the US has, which nevertheless can often get some state services and have enough ID to pass by. Because it's a political issue, nobody can either legalize or deport them without getting into the political quagmire that is immigration reform. In functioning ID systems (and not having or wanting one is a valid political position which both the US and the UK took) this is not an issue. I live in Poland, and we force rotating IDs on a (staggered) 10-year schedule, just so we can slowly upgrade them and introduce new features like these.
- mixdup 12d ago
  I'm not quite sure what immigration has to do with a national ID system in the US. Seems like you just wanted to bring that up to be able to say "man that'd be so much easier if you got rid of all the immigrants" which it would have no impact either way on this particular issue Also on the rotating schedule thing, driver's licenses expire in the US, usually on a 5-10 year cadence. Replacing the physical cards was not even remotely close to the issue we had with getting REAL ID implemented, the cards themselves aren't special they just have an extra indicator on them. It was about putting in requirements around new documentation and proof of identity, citizenship, and residence and most states not being ready to handle that For example my home state of Alabama issues licenses through the state department of public safety. That's who does the initial test to see if you're fit to drive, etc. But, once you have it you can then renew your license at a city or county office. These offices take a HUGE burden off the state, but they're not qualified to do the verification needed under federal law for REAL ID. So, to get a compliant ID you'd need to go to one of the very few state offices and they were overwhelmed This is the type of issue with the system in the US, not the physical card, not the big scary illegal immigrant problem
  - seemaze 12d ago
    >driver's licenses expire in the US, usually on a 5-10 year cadence Standard Arizona drivers licenses only expire when the licensee turns 65 years of age, and must be renewed every 5 years thereafter.
    - fc417fc802 12d ago
      You don't have to update your picture? You can be wandering around using a 40 year old ID card? That doesn't sound right.
      - ButlerianJihad 12d ago
        The photograph does have its own expiration timeline, which is not printed on the card. So yes, it was a little surprising to receive that letter, calling me into the office for another photo shoot.
        fc417fc802 11d ago
        > which is not printed on the card So what happens if you just don't show up?
  - pvab3 12d ago
    isn't the immigrant question a real obstacle for political change towards fixing this problem? That we would have to come to some kind of consensus on what to do for illegal immigrants
    - dzhiurgis 12d ago
      As long gangs are running the political discourse (anti-id, anti-flock, etc) - good luck in having functioning society. I say that as someone who just spent 3 months in Europe and witnessing farcical bureaucracy.
      - 11d ago
fc417fc802 12d ago
> A centralized identification system on that scale in the US would take generations to get up and running Cultural pushback has so far prevented such a system from being created. I hope that continues but am not optimistic.

by mixdup 12d ago

miki123211 12d ago

And then there's the problem of undocummented / illegal immigrants that the US has, which nevertheless can often get some state services and have enough ID to pass by. Because it's a political issue, nobody can either legalize or deport them without getting into the political quagmire that is immigration reform. In functioning ID systems (and not having or wanting one is a valid political position which both the US and the UK took) this is not an issue. I live in Poland, and we force rotating IDs on a (staggered) 10-year schedule, just so we can slowly upgrade them and introduce new features like these.

mixdup 12d ago
I'm not quite sure what immigration has to do with a national ID system in the US. Seems like you just wanted to bring that up to be able to say "man that'd be so much easier if you got rid of all the immigrants" which it would have no impact either way on this particular issue Also on the rotating schedule thing, driver's licenses expire in the US, usually on a 5-10 year cadence. Replacing the physical cards was not even remotely close to the issue we had with getting REAL ID implemented, the cards themselves aren't special they just have an extra indicator on them. It was about putting in requirements around new documentation and proof of identity, citizenship, and residence and most states not being ready to handle that For example my home state of Alabama issues licenses through the state department of public safety. That's who does the initial test to see if you're fit to drive, etc. But, once you have it you can then renew your license at a city or county office. These offices take a HUGE burden off the state, but they're not qualified to do the verification needed under federal law for REAL ID. So, to get a compliant ID you'd need to go to one of the very few state offices and they were overwhelmed This is the type of issue with the system in the US, not the physical card, not the big scary illegal immigrant problem
- seemaze 12d ago
  >driver's licenses expire in the US, usually on a 5-10 year cadence Standard Arizona drivers licenses only expire when the licensee turns 65 years of age, and must be renewed every 5 years thereafter.
  - fc417fc802 12d ago
    You don't have to update your picture? You can be wandering around using a 40 year old ID card? That doesn't sound right.
    - ButlerianJihad 12d ago
      The photograph does have its own expiration timeline, which is not printed on the card. So yes, it was a little surprising to receive that letter, calling me into the office for another photo shoot.
      - fc417fc802 11d ago
        > which is not printed on the card So what happens if you just don't show up?
- pvab3 12d ago
  isn't the immigrant question a real obstacle for political change towards fixing this problem? That we would have to come to some kind of consensus on what to do for illegal immigrants
  - dzhiurgis 12d ago
    As long gangs are running the political discourse (anti-id, anti-flock, etc) - good luck in having functioning society. I say that as someone who just spent 3 months in Europe and witnessing farcical bureaucracy.
    - 11d ago

fc417fc802 12d ago

> A centralized identification system on that scale in the US would take generations to get up and running Cultural pushback has so far prevented such a system from being created. I hope that continues but am not optimistic.