11 ms·

It's sad that Tuta has fallen for Big Tech newspeak. Once upon a time, we installed stuff on our devices. Calling it side-something makes it seem frowned upon,

It's sad that Tuta has fallen for Big Tech newspeak. Once upon a time, we installed stuff on our devices. Calling it side-something makes it seem frowned upon, which plays right into Google's hand.

unrented7977 13d ago
It's not newspeak, we've been calling it sideloading since the 90s
- roosterIllusi0n 13d ago
  That is untrue. It's called "installing" or just "running". Sideloading makes no sense if you describe normal installing that way. The side load is the app store.
- Grimblewald 13d ago
  right but sideloading means installing outside the official channel. last i checked playstore was an option, not android official.
  - hulitu 12d ago
    > sideloading means installing outside the official channel On VMS ? Or plan9 ?
- Gormo 13d ago
  Got any citations for that? The first time I personally ever encountered the term "sideload" was at a Microsoft developer demo for the upcoming Windows Phone around 2010, and another audience member raised his hand to ask what that term meant.
  - btreecat 12d ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading I don't remember calling it side loading when I had some of those earlier mp3 players but my experience wasn't universal.
- stuaxo 13d ago
  Not for apps and games on most phones. I made these and we installed them as JARs or Whatever Symbian used.
- jdjfnfhfhtb 12d ago
  No, we called it installing software.
  - jdjfnfhfhtb 12d ago
    And also the phones people had in the early to mid 90's were analog bricks, with serious batteries. The smaller phones like nokias came 97 onward and were smaller.
- selfhoster11 12d ago
  Lol, no.
tweetle_beetle 13d ago
Sideloading is a type of installing defined by the source of the file(s) being installed. Google will still allow installing from the Play store. The distinction is valid.
- x______________ 13d ago
  > Sideloading is a type of installing defined by the source of the file(s) being installed Installing is the action of the owner of the device, to add functionality to that device by adding compiled executable code, regardless of the source.
  - gruez 13d ago
    You can acknowledge that different concepts exist and would be better served by having different words, rather than trying to force others (via downvoting) into not using a given word. Whether you support google's restrictions or not, they only apply to a subset of apps, so having a word to refer to the specific subset of apps is helpful.
    - owebmaster 13d ago
      Helpful to whom? Google banning installing apps outside of play store is the correct story.
      - gruez 12d ago
        Helpful for the purposes of discussion. Consider: "Google is banning installing apps!" vs "Google is banning sideloading!" Regardless of your position on whether Android should care whether an app came from the play store downloaded elsewhere, it's worth distinguishing them for the purposes of discussing what's happening.
        NietzscheanNull 12d ago
        I think your example is stilted in exactly the direction that the anti-sideloading-as-a-term crowd fears is increasingly becoming normalized. In fact, I think it's actually a perfect demonstration of how incredibly subtle and pernicious even small changes in the language we use can be, especially over a period of years to decades. Those changes are capable of reframing public perceptions in ways that inhibit our ability to recognize what would otherwise be obvious attacks on our expectations of rights and individual agency (were they couched in the existing terminology instead). I would propose a modified counter-example to illustrate my point: "Google is banning installation of apps they don't approve!" vs "Google is banning sideloading!" This makes it clear what's actually happening: ownership of a Google device is no longer truly ownership. You are only allowed to install apps Google deems acceptable, and are denied the agency to install apps that are not. The device is fundamentally Google's to control; you're merely a user.
rustcleaner 13d ago
It's a blue-bubblification, something which tricks the mind.
aiauthoritydev 13d ago
> we installed stuff on our devices I am not sure about that. Windows, Linux based devices were like that but for a lot of things like gaming consoles etc. you were locked into the ecosystem and 'side loading" was indeed something. I do understand developer mindset but I would be pretty unhappy if my mother's phone could just install stuff. A lot of people get harmed and lose their life's saving over wrongly installed crap. A good middle ground for the Big Tech is to let folks pay $$, a money that is high enough and has sufficient friction.
- roosterIllusi0n 12d ago
  That isn't even true about gaming consoles. They were completely open in the 90s and before. The consoles even lost lawsuits keeping it open. For newer consoles, a modchip doesn't side load, it enables normal loading without the drm check. Bypassing/disabling drm would not be called sideloading. If anything, the app store would be the sideload because they are loading the installer via a middleman instead of downloading the installer and running it yourself like normal.
- user205738 9d ago
  A free app in the Play Market will almost always contain malware, simply because developers try to return money. I’m not even talking about the huge number of fake and malicious apps in it.

It's sad that Tuta has fallen for Big Tech newspeak. Once upon a time, we installed stuff on our devices. Calling it side-something makes it seem frowned upon, which plays right into Google's hand.

unrented7977 13d ago

It's not newspeak, we've been calling it sideloading since the 90s

roosterIllusi0n 13d ago
That is untrue. It's called "installing" or just "running". Sideloading makes no sense if you describe normal installing that way. The side load is the app store.
Grimblewald 13d ago
right but sideloading means installing outside the official channel. last i checked playstore was an option, not android official.
- hulitu 12d ago
  > sideloading means installing outside the official channel On VMS ? Or plan9 ?
Gormo 13d ago
Got any citations for that? The first time I personally ever encountered the term "sideload" was at a Microsoft developer demo for the upcoming Windows Phone around 2010, and another audience member raised his hand to ask what that term meant.
- btreecat 12d ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sideloading I don't remember calling it side loading when I had some of those earlier mp3 players but my experience wasn't universal.
stuaxo 13d ago
Not for apps and games on most phones. I made these and we installed them as JARs or Whatever Symbian used.
jdjfnfhfhtb 12d ago
No, we called it installing software.
- jdjfnfhfhtb 12d ago
  And also the phones people had in the early to mid 90's were analog bricks, with serious batteries. The smaller phones like nokias came 97 onward and were smaller.
selfhoster11 12d ago
Lol, no.

tweetle_beetle 13d ago

Sideloading is a type of installing defined by the source of the file(s) being installed. Google will still allow installing from the Play store. The distinction is valid.

x______________ 13d ago
> Sideloading is a type of installing defined by the source of the file(s) being installed Installing is the action of the owner of the device, to add functionality to that device by adding compiled executable code, regardless of the source.
- gruez 13d ago
  You can acknowledge that different concepts exist and would be better served by having different words, rather than trying to force others (via downvoting) into not using a given word. Whether you support google's restrictions or not, they only apply to a subset of apps, so having a word to refer to the specific subset of apps is helpful.
  - owebmaster 13d ago
    Helpful to whom? Google banning installing apps outside of play store is the correct story.
    - gruez 12d ago
      Helpful for the purposes of discussion. Consider: "Google is banning installing apps!" vs "Google is banning sideloading!" Regardless of your position on whether Android should care whether an app came from the play store downloaded elsewhere, it's worth distinguishing them for the purposes of discussing what's happening.
      - NietzscheanNull 12d ago
        I think your example is stilted in exactly the direction that the anti-sideloading-as-a-term crowd fears is increasingly becoming normalized. In fact, I think it's actually a perfect demonstration of how incredibly subtle and pernicious even small changes in the language we use can be, especially over a period of years to decades. Those changes are capable of reframing public perceptions in ways that inhibit our ability to recognize what would otherwise be obvious attacks on our expectations of rights and individual agency (were they couched in the existing terminology instead). I would propose a modified counter-example to illustrate my point: "Google is banning installation of apps they don't approve!" vs "Google is banning sideloading!" This makes it clear what's actually happening: ownership of a Google device is no longer truly ownership. You are only allowed to install apps Google deems acceptable, and are denied the agency to install apps that are not. The device is fundamentally Google's to control; you're merely a user.

rustcleaner 13d ago

It's a blue-bubblification, something which tricks the mind.

aiauthoritydev 13d ago

> we installed stuff on our devices I am not sure about that. Windows, Linux based devices were like that but for a lot of things like gaming consoles etc. you were locked into the ecosystem and 'side loading" was indeed something. I do understand developer mindset but I would be pretty unhappy if my mother's phone could just install stuff. A lot of people get harmed and lose their life's saving over wrongly installed crap. A good middle ground for the Big Tech is to let folks pay $$, a money that is high enough and has sufficient friction.

roosterIllusi0n 12d ago
That isn't even true about gaming consoles. They were completely open in the 90s and before. The consoles even lost lawsuits keeping it open. For newer consoles, a modchip doesn't side load, it enables normal loading without the drm check. Bypassing/disabling drm would not be called sideloading. If anything, the app store would be the sideload because they are loading the installer via a middleman instead of downloading the installer and running it yourself like normal.
user205738 9d ago
A free app in the Play Market will almost always contain malware, simply because developers try to return money. I’m not even talking about the huge number of fake and malicious apps in it.