5 ms·

Instrument clusters are now paid extras in two Hyundai models

31 points by WarOnPrivacy 13d ago

_trampeltier 13d ago
How can it be legal to not have any kind of speed display in front of the driver?
- quux 13d ago
  Because there's a speed display along the left side of the center display. Teslas have been doing this legally for years. Even before Teslas, I had a Toyota Yaris that had a center mounted instrument cluster a few years ago. I guess it makes it cheaper/easier to sell into both left hand drive and right hand drive markets.
  - bigstrat2003 13d ago
    Having something on the center display should not count as acceptable. It certainly doesn't in my book. You need to have the important info in front of you, not off to the side somewhere.
avidiax 13d ago
One of the problems with this kind of marketing is that there are essentially no base-models available at dealerships. So the flexibility supposedly provided by making the gauge cluster an option is not actually available to the consumer. This is just a money-grab while advertising a low price. The ads all show the fully loaded model, "starting from" $LowPrice. We need a rule that the price shown is for the fully loaded model ($HighPrice), maybe fine print "configurable as low as $LowPrice". And then they have to actually allow you to configure that base model, and stock it. Otherwise, it's just effectively false advertising when every dealership gets just one base model that they will not sell to you.
- pc86 13d ago
  They will gladly sell you that base model for MSRP (or higher).
- wanderingmoose 13d ago
  It gets even more fun than that. As a datapoint my parent wanted a manual Honda Accord. In order to be able to advertise that price, Honda had to have a grand total of 3 manual Accords cars available in all of California. Source -- Had a broker find the car and that was the story the broker told us (they found a manual but we had to travel from San Diego to San Dimas (2 hr drive) to get it.
542458 13d ago
Two notes - 1, this applies only to a pair of base models in the Korean market (for now) and 2, the info is still there, but it's on the central screen and not on the instrument cluster behind the wheel. You can see it in the article's hero image: https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/2fa717dc-2eea-4e9c-9606-239dc6d770d0.jpg?crop=0.788xw:0.665xh;0xw,0.248xh https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/2fa717dc-2eea-4e... The thin screen is not always present, but the larger screen shows the same info upper-left.
- mynegation 13d ago
  As a driver I would be so freaking confused staring at the empty space behind the wheel. Maybe it is just my Gen X experience of learning to drive on a stick and paying attention to tachometer and coolant temp.
  - alternativeworl 13d ago
    I've made the switch before. At first yes of course you do stare at the dash in front of the wheel for a sec before remembering it's to the side but I didn't find the learning curve too difficult. After a month or so it's second nature.
  - toast0 13d ago
    > Maybe it is just my Gen X experience of learning to drive on a stick and paying attention to tachometer and coolant temp. You and your fancy cars... my 1981 Vanagon doesn't have fancy stuff like a tach or a trip meter or a temperature gauge. Who needs a tach when you have ears, and anyway there's a colored dot on the speedometer at the top end of first, two dots at the top end of 2nd and three dots at the top end of 3rd. If you go over, the rev limiter will let you know. While working on the speedometer, I did drive it a bit with no cluster installed, and it was weird, but I could get used to a bit more visibility, although the extra visibility was obstructed by the steering wheel. I bet you had a separate indicator for left turn signal and right turn signal, but do you really need that? --- a single indicator if any turn signal is active is plenty.
  - tpmoney 13d ago
mdavid626 13d ago
- I’m sorry officer I didn’t know I was speeding. My car isn’t equipped with an instrument cluster. - Oh, I see, go on then.
- pc86 13d ago
  More like "That's weird. Here's your ticket. Wait here while I figure out if you're even allowed to drive this thing."
micromacrofoot 13d ago
of course the digitization of more of our lives will take the natural course to unlockable cosmetic items
bluGill 13d ago
The old jeeps had the speedometer in the middle of the dash. I don't know how that worked but they were never good on road vehicles anyway (they could do it, just not well) and off road you don't need that. Jeeps in the past 30 or 50 years have moved to cars with an off road image. Still better than most off road, but mostly off road is and after-thought in the design.
rootsudo 13d ago
If you looked at the new 4runner and land cruiser, it's essentially the same thing but packaged in a higher trim. At the same time, what do you really need in an instrument cluster besides the fuel, rpm/battery charge and speedometer?
- AnimalMuppet 13d ago
  Engine/coolant temperature can be pretty important.
  - rootsudo 13d ago
    thats hidden nowadays and its a light vs a gauge but agree
  - nothercastle 13d ago
    Only if towing
    - AnimalMuppet 13d ago
      I have needed more than the light on at least two occasions, neither towing.
      - nothercastle 12d ago
        A modern vehicle overheating? Like did you need to limp it home or something
        AnimalMuppet 11d ago
        Absolutely limping, both cases. The gauge let me judge exactly how far I was pushing it in my limping, and gave me an idea of whether and how soon I needed to find a place to stop for a while.
josefritzishere 13d ago
Well now we know that José Muñoz is evil and psychotic.
jamesgill 13d ago
I'm old enough to remember when 'automatic transmission' was a luxury option that cost more; standard (transmission) was the default. Auto makers are always looking for ways to differentiate, upsell, and tap demand.
- rconti 13d ago
  Porsche is now charging extra for a "standard" transmission https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2027-porsche-911-carrera-s-manual-debut-first-look.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2027-porsche-911-carrera-s-...
  - nubinetwork 13d ago
    Maybe that's a good idea... https://youtu.be/5fbuRCLQEsQ https://youtu.be/5fbuRCLQEsQ
    - rconti 13d ago
      Wow, that's some ASTOUNDINGLY terrible driving!
pc86 13d ago
Straight to jail.
pryelluw 13d ago
I remember having a car that had a speedometer and a fuel gauge. Nothing else. This seems similar.
- nothercastle 13d ago
  I don’t need anything else
rconti 13d ago
My model 3 doesn't even HAVE an option to pay extra for a display directly in front of the driver.
matthews3 13d ago
A lot of Minis had the central speedo. Unsure if it's true or just automotive legend, but allegedly it was for cost cutting (fewer changes between left hand drive and right hand drive models). So nothing ever changes.

31 points by WarOnPrivacy 13d ago

_trampeltier 13d ago

How can it be legal to not have any kind of speed display in front of the driver?

quux 13d ago
Because there's a speed display along the left side of the center display. Teslas have been doing this legally for years. Even before Teslas, I had a Toyota Yaris that had a center mounted instrument cluster a few years ago. I guess it makes it cheaper/easier to sell into both left hand drive and right hand drive markets.
- bigstrat2003 13d ago
  Having something on the center display should not count as acceptable. It certainly doesn't in my book. You need to have the important info in front of you, not off to the side somewhere.

avidiax 13d ago

One of the problems with this kind of marketing is that there are essentially no base-models available at dealerships. So the flexibility supposedly provided by making the gauge cluster an option is not actually available to the consumer. This is just a money-grab while advertising a low price. The ads all show the fully loaded model, "starting from" $LowPrice. We need a rule that the price shown is for the fully loaded model ($HighPrice), maybe fine print "configurable as low as $LowPrice". And then they have to actually allow you to configure that base model, and stock it. Otherwise, it's just effectively false advertising when every dealership gets just one base model that they will not sell to you.

pc86 13d ago
They will gladly sell you that base model for MSRP (or higher).
wanderingmoose 13d ago
It gets even more fun than that. As a datapoint my parent wanted a manual Honda Accord. In order to be able to advertise that price, Honda had to have a grand total of 3 manual Accords cars available in all of California. Source -- Had a broker find the car and that was the story the broker told us (they found a manual but we had to travel from San Diego to San Dimas (2 hr drive) to get it.

542458 13d ago

Two notes - 1, this applies only to a pair of base models in the Korean market (for now) and 2, the info is still there, but it's on the central screen and not on the instrument cluster behind the wheel. You can see it in the article's hero image: https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/2fa717dc-2eea-4e9c-9606-239dc6d770d0.jpg?crop=0.788xw:0.665xh;0xw,0.248xh https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/2fa717dc-2eea-4e... The thin screen is not always present, but the larger screen shows the same info upper-left.

mynegation 13d ago
As a driver I would be so freaking confused staring at the empty space behind the wheel. Maybe it is just my Gen X experience of learning to drive on a stick and paying attention to tachometer and coolant temp.
- alternativeworl 13d ago
  I've made the switch before. At first yes of course you do stare at the dash in front of the wheel for a sec before remembering it's to the side but I didn't find the learning curve too difficult. After a month or so it's second nature.
- toast0 13d ago
  > Maybe it is just my Gen X experience of learning to drive on a stick and paying attention to tachometer and coolant temp. You and your fancy cars... my 1981 Vanagon doesn't have fancy stuff like a tach or a trip meter or a temperature gauge. Who needs a tach when you have ears, and anyway there's a colored dot on the speedometer at the top end of first, two dots at the top end of 2nd and three dots at the top end of 3rd. If you go over, the rev limiter will let you know. While working on the speedometer, I did drive it a bit with no cluster installed, and it was weird, but I could get used to a bit more visibility, although the extra visibility was obstructed by the steering wheel. I bet you had a separate indicator for left turn signal and right turn signal, but do you really need that? --- a single indicator if any turn signal is active is plenty.
- tpmoney 13d ago

mdavid626 13d ago

- I’m sorry officer I didn’t know I was speeding. My car isn’t equipped with an instrument cluster. - Oh, I see, go on then.

pc86 13d ago
More like "That's weird. Here's your ticket. Wait here while I figure out if you're even allowed to drive this thing."

micromacrofoot 13d ago

of course the digitization of more of our lives will take the natural course to unlockable cosmetic items

bluGill 13d ago

The old jeeps had the speedometer in the middle of the dash. I don't know how that worked but they were never good on road vehicles anyway (they could do it, just not well) and off road you don't need that. Jeeps in the past 30 or 50 years have moved to cars with an off road image. Still better than most off road, but mostly off road is and after-thought in the design.

rootsudo 13d ago

If you looked at the new 4runner and land cruiser, it's essentially the same thing but packaged in a higher trim. At the same time, what do you really need in an instrument cluster besides the fuel, rpm/battery charge and speedometer?

AnimalMuppet 13d ago
Engine/coolant temperature can be pretty important.
- rootsudo 13d ago
  thats hidden nowadays and its a light vs a gauge but agree
- nothercastle 13d ago
  Only if towing
  - AnimalMuppet 13d ago
    I have needed more than the light on at least two occasions, neither towing.
    - nothercastle 12d ago
      A modern vehicle overheating? Like did you need to limp it home or something
      - AnimalMuppet 11d ago
        Absolutely limping, both cases. The gauge let me judge exactly how far I was pushing it in my limping, and gave me an idea of whether and how soon I needed to find a place to stop for a while.

josefritzishere 13d ago

Well now we know that José Muñoz is evil and psychotic.

jamesgill 13d ago

I'm old enough to remember when 'automatic transmission' was a luxury option that cost more; standard (transmission) was the default. Auto makers are always looking for ways to differentiate, upsell, and tap demand.

rconti 13d ago
Porsche is now charging extra for a "standard" transmission https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2027-porsche-911-carrera-s-manual-debut-first-look.html https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2027-porsche-911-carrera-s-...
- nubinetwork 13d ago
  Maybe that's a good idea... https://youtu.be/5fbuRCLQEsQ https://youtu.be/5fbuRCLQEsQ
  - rconti 13d ago
    Wow, that's some ASTOUNDINGLY terrible driving!

pc86 13d ago

Straight to jail.

pryelluw 13d ago

I remember having a car that had a speedometer and a fuel gauge. Nothing else. This seems similar.

nothercastle 13d ago
I don’t need anything else

rconti 13d ago

My model 3 doesn't even HAVE an option to pay extra for a display directly in front of the driver.

matthews3 13d ago

A lot of Minis had the central speedo. Unsure if it's true or just automotive legend, but allegedly it was for cost cutting (fewer changes between left hand drive and right hand drive models). So nothing ever changes.