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I love how most any RTO-proponent always presents RTO as "well I'm glad you're back in the office with me because that's better for me". Ask most any WFH-propon

by xingped 14d ago

I love how most any RTO-proponent always presents RTO as "well I'm glad you're back in the office with me because that's better for me". Ask most any WFH-proponent about going to the office and the answer will read like "do whatever works best for yourself, I prefer WFH myself, you can go to the office if you want". It's a very selfish mindset, really. If RTO-proponents cared about not imposing their will on others, they'd also advocate for WFH for anyone that prefers it, but they don't.

missedthecue 14d ago
Well what do you expect? Holing yourself up in your home is something you can do unilaterally. In-person team collaboration requires... well, collaboration. It's not a unilateral action so there isn't unilateral advice.
- broknbottle 14d ago
  100%. The Linux kernel would have never grown and become so successful if it weren’t for everybody in the office all those years just collaborate-maxxxing … /s
- catchnear4321 14d ago
  in-person collaboration requiring in-person more than collaboration, as collaboration is quite possible remotely, and even asynchronously. “holing yourself up…” but it wasn’t about conversation, it was about opinion.
- pjmlp 13d ago
  Except most of us don't do team collaboration in the office anyway. With very few exceptions, all my projects involve distributed teams in a mix of nearshore and offshoring, across multiple locations.
  - FoundTheDouche 13d ago
    [dead]
    - cindyllm 13d ago
      [dead]
    - pjmlp 13d ago
      If you say so.
- locknitpicker 13d ago
  > In-person team collaboration requires... well, collaboration. You're confusing things. Collaboration doesn't require you to be continuously in the same room with people 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, and your personal needs to be in a room with someone else does not justify forcing everyone under payroll to commute to the office. You already need to schedule meetings to be in the same room with someone, don't you? Why would anyone have to waste their time commuting to the office if you didn't booked a meeting?
  - missedthecue 13d ago
    You're misunderstanding my use of the term collaboration. I'm not using it as corporate speak for "teamwork". I'm saying that in order for me to go into the office with everyone, everyone needs to go into the office. That's an axiomatic self-proving statement. As opposed to WFH where one can simply do that without other people also doing it.
    - locknitpicker 13d ago
      > I'm saying that in order for me to go into the office with everyone, everyone needs to go into the office. No. You feel you need everyone around you at the office, but that is you and you speak for yourself. Others have a say on that, don't they? For you to be around people in a way you don't get in the way of everyone else around you, you need to coordinate. This means you need to plan ahead and schedule meetings with a specific agenda to discuss with the people whose time you want to waste. That doesn't require everyone else to drive all the way to the office 5 days a week,and then send there 8 or 9 hours a day. In some cases a simple message does the work. In some cases a call will do. For the rare occasions where you need to be at arm's reach of someone, you guys can plan ahead. So why do you believe it's reasonable ti demand everyone around you to bend backwards to accommodate your peculiar requirements of proximity?
- shikck200 12d ago
  Nah. 99% of meetings are fluff. Something that could have been just an short email. Meetings are for people who do not get anything done. for people who like to waste other peoples time. The actual good meetings are the ones that have a VERY clear context, and goes down to details that EVERYONE in the meetings know by heart. These are rare, maybe one a year.

by xingped 14d ago

missedthecue 14d ago

Well what do you expect? Holing yourself up in your home is something you can do unilaterally. In-person team collaboration requires... well, collaboration. It's not a unilateral action so there isn't unilateral advice.

broknbottle 14d ago
100%. The Linux kernel would have never grown and become so successful if it weren’t for everybody in the office all those years just collaborate-maxxxing … /s
catchnear4321 14d ago
in-person collaboration requiring in-person more than collaboration, as collaboration is quite possible remotely, and even asynchronously. “holing yourself up…” but it wasn’t about conversation, it was about opinion.
pjmlp 13d ago
Except most of us don't do team collaboration in the office anyway. With very few exceptions, all my projects involve distributed teams in a mix of nearshore and offshoring, across multiple locations.
- FoundTheDouche 13d ago
  [dead]
  - cindyllm 13d ago
    [dead]
  - pjmlp 13d ago
    If you say so.
locknitpicker 13d ago
> In-person team collaboration requires... well, collaboration. You're confusing things. Collaboration doesn't require you to be continuously in the same room with people 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, and your personal needs to be in a room with someone else does not justify forcing everyone under payroll to commute to the office. You already need to schedule meetings to be in the same room with someone, don't you? Why would anyone have to waste their time commuting to the office if you didn't booked a meeting?
- missedthecue 13d ago
  You're misunderstanding my use of the term collaboration. I'm not using it as corporate speak for "teamwork". I'm saying that in order for me to go into the office with everyone, everyone needs to go into the office. That's an axiomatic self-proving statement. As opposed to WFH where one can simply do that without other people also doing it.
  - locknitpicker 13d ago
    > I'm saying that in order for me to go into the office with everyone, everyone needs to go into the office. No. You feel you need everyone around you at the office, but that is you and you speak for yourself. Others have a say on that, don't they? For you to be around people in a way you don't get in the way of everyone else around you, you need to coordinate. This means you need to plan ahead and schedule meetings with a specific agenda to discuss with the people whose time you want to waste. That doesn't require everyone else to drive all the way to the office 5 days a week,and then send there 8 or 9 hours a day. In some cases a simple message does the work. In some cases a call will do. For the rare occasions where you need to be at arm's reach of someone, you guys can plan ahead. So why do you believe it's reasonable ti demand everyone around you to bend backwards to accommodate your peculiar requirements of proximity?
shikck200 12d ago
Nah. 99% of meetings are fluff. Something that could have been just an short email. Meetings are for people who do not get anything done. for people who like to waste other peoples time. The actual good meetings are the ones that have a VERY clear context, and goes down to details that EVERYONE in the meetings know by heart. These are rare, maybe one a year.