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There are about 600,000 American citizens alive today who lack traceable documentation of their birth due to Jim Crow policies.

by jeffbee 15d ago

gnuplustoejam 15d ago
We have plenty of naturalized immigrants with no traceable documentation of their birth because they grew up in the middle of nowhere. Somehow this wasn't a problem for them, while whites-only water fountains still live rent-free in your mind. Following your logic, no problem is solvable until you have eliminated all potential issues and outliers. No startups would ever get off the ground with that attitude.
- jeffbee 15d ago
  I'm all for solving problems, but I am not for committing a major disenfranchisement under cover of solving a non-problem. People who want to just ram through voter ID laws without solving the problem of undocumented citizens can't be treated as serious members of society.
  - ericmay 14d ago
    Maybe you're not helping to solve this problem and you're just making it worse by overstating the problem and causing others to argue over whether there is even a problem? > People who want to just ram through voter ID laws without solving the problem of undocumented citizens can't be treated as serious members of society. Maybe we want to be more like Europe with IDs from birth and to use them for all government activities. Who are you to be the arbiter of who is a serious member of society?
- toast0 13d ago
  > We have plenty of naturalized immigrants with no traceable documentation of their birth because they grew up in the middle of nowhere. Sure, because the documentation required used to be less. When I was first getting my driver's license, you could establish your identity by having a birth certificate or some sort of vouching process. These days, you need a birth certificate. It would be hard to immigrate today without a birth certificate, in part because it would be hard to get a passport without it, and it's hard to enter the country without a passport. Countries where record keeping was historically poor tend to have more accessible ways to obtain a passport without a birth certificate... A passport is sufficient proof of birth in an immigration file, and a certificate of naturalization is sufficient proof of citizenship, so a birth certificate isn't explicitly necessary.

There are about 600,000 American citizens alive today who lack traceable documentation of their birth due to Jim Crow policies.

by jeffbee 15d ago

There are about 600,000 American citizens alive today who lack traceable documentation of their birth due to Jim Crow policies.

gnuplustoejam 15d ago

We have plenty of naturalized immigrants with no traceable documentation of their birth because they grew up in the middle of nowhere. Somehow this wasn't a problem for them, while whites-only water fountains still live rent-free in your mind. Following your logic, no problem is solvable until you have eliminated all potential issues and outliers. No startups would ever get off the ground with that attitude.

jeffbee 15d ago
I'm all for solving problems, but I am not for committing a major disenfranchisement under cover of solving a non-problem. People who want to just ram through voter ID laws without solving the problem of undocumented citizens can't be treated as serious members of society.
- ericmay 14d ago
  Maybe you're not helping to solve this problem and you're just making it worse by overstating the problem and causing others to argue over whether there is even a problem? > People who want to just ram through voter ID laws without solving the problem of undocumented citizens can't be treated as serious members of society. Maybe we want to be more like Europe with IDs from birth and to use them for all government activities. Who are you to be the arbiter of who is a serious member of society?
toast0 13d ago
> We have plenty of naturalized immigrants with no traceable documentation of their birth because they grew up in the middle of nowhere. Sure, because the documentation required used to be less. When I was first getting my driver's license, you could establish your identity by having a birth certificate or some sort of vouching process. These days, you need a birth certificate. It would be hard to immigrate today without a birth certificate, in part because it would be hard to get a passport without it, and it's hard to enter the country without a passport. Countries where record keeping was historically poor tend to have more accessible ways to obtain a passport without a birth certificate... A passport is sufficient proof of birth in an immigration file, and a certificate of naturalization is sufficient proof of citizenship, so a birth certificate isn't explicitly necessary.