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> which is the butt of every government inefficiency complaint I always find DMV (or whatever your state's equivalent) inefficiency arguments to be hilarious.

> which is the butt of every government inefficiency complaint I always find DMV (or whatever your state's equivalent) inefficiency arguments to be hilarious. They're run extremely efficiently for the government. They suck use because of that (long wait times, most important stuff gets shipped by mail weeks later).

bigbuppo 15d ago
I live in Misissippi. The last time I had to go in-person for a license renewal I was in and out in less than 10 minutes because they had automated kiosks. Then again, Mississippi is a progressive state.
- mulmen 14d ago
  Given the voter suppression history I’m curious if that experience is consistent across location and racial dimensions.
- thephyber 14d ago
  Yes, I'm sure every person in Mississippi has the same super expedient interaction as a HNer when they have to visit to get their ID documents. I bet you even live next door to the DMV so your travel time was negligible. The point of the government doing it is that it has to be able to service those people who live maximally far from a DMV (say 60 minutes each way by car), who can't drive there, who have to weigh losing pay to take the time to travel there, who have below average intelligence, who are functionally illiterate (because Mississippi created A LOT of those before their recent education reforms), who "can't use technology", who forgot to bring whatever specific document qualifies for Real ID, etc.
  - what 14d ago
    The idea that people are unable to get IDs is an absolute myth. You need it to for basically everything a normal adult does.
    - thephyber 13d ago
      You are just repeating the same meme that every Republican says. There is a huge difference between a guaranteed Constitutional right that this country fought a Civil War for... and a privilege such as getting on a plane or driving a car. Assume that I know everything you know about this topic and still arrived at a different conclusion.
autoexec 15d ago
> I always find DMV (or whatever your state's equivalent) inefficiency arguments to be hilarious. They're run extremely efficiently for the government. It's real funny until they pass a law that says you need an ID to vote and then immediately close the only DMV anywhere near where you live specifically because they want to keep you and your neighbors from voting (https://www.yahoo.com/news/feds-called-investigate-alabama-dmv-closures-latest-voter-220039009.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/feds-called-investigate-alabama-d...)
- thegrim33 14d ago
  Ah yes, the good 'ol "link to an article as proof of my claims, the article then contains multiple links to proof of the article's claims, and the multiple links, when followed, all end up leading to 404 pages with no content." Well, that convinces me.
  - autoexec 14d ago
    If you were looking for how the investigation ended here's the press release from the USDOT https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-transportation-takes-action-ensure-equitable-driver-license-office https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-t...
Sohcahtoa82 15d ago
I've found that the speed of the DMV seems to vary wildly by state, and possibly even city and location, based on anecdotes. Earlier this year, my license was expiring and I decided to get a Real ID. I was able to create an appointment on the Oregon DMV website. It was set for 10 AM. I got there at 9:50 and checked in. My name was called up at only a couple minutes after my appointment time. I gave my documents and paid, then was instructed to wait by the camera area for my picture. I had barely sat down when my name was called. They took my picture, and I was all set. I was out the door by 10:15. Pretty sure my ID then came in the mail only about a week later. So when people talk about long waits, I don't know what they're talking about. Maybe their state just sucks.
- deleted 14d ago
  [deleted]
- dghlsakjg 14d ago
  It can also depend on where you are within the state. When I lived in Colorado the smart move in Denver was to start lining up about an hour before the DMV opened (for driver licenses, car registration never had much of a line). Out in the mountains, I was able to just walk in just about anytime. The longest wait I had in the small mountain town I lived in was when the one lady working there was doing a driving test, and I had to wait 10 minutes for her to get back. Living in Washington, they allow private businesses to register vehicles, so transferring a car was normally a 5 minute job. Never did bother to switch my DL, so can't comment on that. Now I'm up in BC where vehicle and driver licensing is handled by the state owned insurance monopoly. Any agent, private or public, can register your car. You can get the licensing done at public insurance offices, or at provincial service centres that handle all sorts of business by appointment or walk in. It all works pretty well.
  - drumdance 14d ago
    When was this? I lived in Denver 2015-2021 and the DMV was always quick when I went.
    - 14d ago
deleted 14d ago
[deleted]
mulmen 14d ago
> They're run extremely efficiently for the government. They suck use because of that (long wait times, most important stuff gets shipped by mail weeks later). The government is efficient without qualification. People just like to complain and Reagan was charismatic so we’re cursed with this government inefficiency meme. We’re programmed to repeat it even when providing counter examples. The overwhelming majority of the waiting I do in life is at the hands of private organizations who are unwilling to invest in proper staffing. There will no doubt be replies to the contrary but to them I say they have identified corruption, not inefficiency. When the government doesn’t work it is by choice.
- dghlsakjg 14d ago
  People also confuse that government programs have to prioritize many things over and above cost in ways that businesses don't. The government has to (and should have to) provide the same service to everyone, everywhere. Businesses would never bother putting a DMV office in a small remote county because of cost, even if it was unfair and inconvenient to people living there. Government does do that, and it doesn't look great on a balance sheet.
thephyber 14d ago
All the more reason to decouple DMV from ID verification. Like I said, the USPS is in a much better position to be able to scale identity to the national scale.
- what 14d ago
  USPS already handle passport applications no? It’s where I went for my kids and they verify all the documents or whatever.
esseph 13d ago
> They're run extremely efficiently for the government. That's because ours are all done by third party companies on contracts :P

bigbuppo 15d ago

I live in Misissippi. The last time I had to go in-person for a license renewal I was in and out in less than 10 minutes because they had automated kiosks. Then again, Mississippi is a progressive state.

mulmen 14d ago
Given the voter suppression history I’m curious if that experience is consistent across location and racial dimensions.
thephyber 14d ago
Yes, I'm sure every person in Mississippi has the same super expedient interaction as a HNer when they have to visit to get their ID documents. I bet you even live next door to the DMV so your travel time was negligible. The point of the government doing it is that it has to be able to service those people who live maximally far from a DMV (say 60 minutes each way by car), who can't drive there, who have to weigh losing pay to take the time to travel there, who have below average intelligence, who are functionally illiterate (because Mississippi created A LOT of those before their recent education reforms), who "can't use technology", who forgot to bring whatever specific document qualifies for Real ID, etc.
- what 14d ago
  The idea that people are unable to get IDs is an absolute myth. You need it to for basically everything a normal adult does.
  - thephyber 13d ago
    You are just repeating the same meme that every Republican says. There is a huge difference between a guaranteed Constitutional right that this country fought a Civil War for... and a privilege such as getting on a plane or driving a car. Assume that I know everything you know about this topic and still arrived at a different conclusion.

autoexec 15d ago

> I always find DMV (or whatever your state's equivalent) inefficiency arguments to be hilarious. They're run extremely efficiently for the government. It's real funny until they pass a law that says you need an ID to vote and then immediately close the only DMV anywhere near where you live specifically because they want to keep you and your neighbors from voting (https://www.yahoo.com/news/feds-called-investigate-alabama-dmv-closures-latest-voter-220039009.html https://www.yahoo.com/news/feds-called-investigate-alabama-d...)

thegrim33 14d ago
Ah yes, the good 'ol "link to an article as proof of my claims, the article then contains multiple links to proof of the article's claims, and the multiple links, when followed, all end up leading to 404 pages with no content." Well, that convinces me.
- autoexec 14d ago
  If you were looking for how the investigation ended here's the press release from the USDOT https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-transportation-takes-action-ensure-equitable-driver-license-office https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-department-t...

Sohcahtoa82 15d ago

I've found that the speed of the DMV seems to vary wildly by state, and possibly even city and location, based on anecdotes. Earlier this year, my license was expiring and I decided to get a Real ID. I was able to create an appointment on the Oregon DMV website. It was set for 10 AM. I got there at 9:50 and checked in. My name was called up at only a couple minutes after my appointment time. I gave my documents and paid, then was instructed to wait by the camera area for my picture. I had barely sat down when my name was called. They took my picture, and I was all set. I was out the door by 10:15. Pretty sure my ID then came in the mail only about a week later. So when people talk about long waits, I don't know what they're talking about. Maybe their state just sucks.

deleted 14d ago
[deleted]
dghlsakjg 14d ago
It can also depend on where you are within the state. When I lived in Colorado the smart move in Denver was to start lining up about an hour before the DMV opened (for driver licenses, car registration never had much of a line). Out in the mountains, I was able to just walk in just about anytime. The longest wait I had in the small mountain town I lived in was when the one lady working there was doing a driving test, and I had to wait 10 minutes for her to get back. Living in Washington, they allow private businesses to register vehicles, so transferring a car was normally a 5 minute job. Never did bother to switch my DL, so can't comment on that. Now I'm up in BC where vehicle and driver licensing is handled by the state owned insurance monopoly. Any agent, private or public, can register your car. You can get the licensing done at public insurance offices, or at provincial service centres that handle all sorts of business by appointment or walk in. It all works pretty well.
- drumdance 14d ago
  When was this? I lived in Denver 2015-2021 and the DMV was always quick when I went.
  - 14d ago

deleted 14d ago

[deleted]

mulmen 14d ago

> They're run extremely efficiently for the government. They suck use because of that (long wait times, most important stuff gets shipped by mail weeks later). The government is efficient without qualification. People just like to complain and Reagan was charismatic so we’re cursed with this government inefficiency meme. We’re programmed to repeat it even when providing counter examples. The overwhelming majority of the waiting I do in life is at the hands of private organizations who are unwilling to invest in proper staffing. There will no doubt be replies to the contrary but to them I say they have identified corruption, not inefficiency. When the government doesn’t work it is by choice.

dghlsakjg 14d ago
People also confuse that government programs have to prioritize many things over and above cost in ways that businesses don't. The government has to (and should have to) provide the same service to everyone, everywhere. Businesses would never bother putting a DMV office in a small remote county because of cost, even if it was unfair and inconvenient to people living there. Government does do that, and it doesn't look great on a balance sheet.

thephyber 14d ago

All the more reason to decouple DMV from ID verification. Like I said, the USPS is in a much better position to be able to scale identity to the national scale.

what 14d ago
USPS already handle passport applications no? It’s where I went for my kids and they verify all the documents or whatever.

esseph 13d ago

> They're run extremely efficiently for the government. That's because ours are all done by third party companies on contracts :P