5 ms·

that haven't been true since pixel 4. it just picks your phone in the background. a burner sim, like a literal criminal, is the only way today.

goodmythical 15d ago
assuming the number you get hasn't previously been assigned to a google account
- drxzcl 15d ago
  I've had no end of trouble registering an account on our corporate SIMs as the phone numbers (not the actual SIM cards) had been recycled as employees leave.
  - edoceo 15d ago
    So many systems cannot handle known pattern of a phone number changing. Who's decided these are imutable values? That I have only one? That it's not shared?
asnelt 15d ago
Even with a burner sim, there is the International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI) number, which is tied to the phone, and is known to all apps with the android.permission.READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE permission.
- exceptione 15d ago
  That can't be true? <https://grapheneos.org/faq#hardware-identifiers https://grapheneos.org/faq#hardware-identifiers> As of Android 10, apps cannot obtain permission to access non-resettable hardware identifiers such as the serial number, MAC addresses, IMEIs/MEIDs, SIM card serial numbers and subscriber IDs. Only privileged apps included in the base system with READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE whitelisted can access these hardware identifiers. Apps targeting Android 10 will receive a SecurityException and older apps will receive an empty value for compatibility. The currently enabled carrier-based messaging app for SMS/MMS/RCS is a special case that's given access to certain device identifiers including the IMEI. This is normally the GrapheneOS fork of AOSP Messaging but can be changed to another app by the user. Since these restrictions became standard, GrapheneOS only makes a small change to remove a legacy form of access to the serial number by legacy apps, which was still around for compatibility. It used to need more extensive changes such as disallowing access to the serial number but those restrictions are now standard. I don't know however if sandboxed google play is such a privileged app.
  - kasabali 15d ago
    Play services isn't an "app", it's a highly privileged system service that has access to everything and some more.
    - exceptione 14d ago
      yes, but not on GOS.
    - grapheneos 14d ago
      The only way to use Play services on GrapheneOS is as a regular sandboxed app. It runs in the standard app sandbox without any of the usual privileged permissions, privileged SELinux policy and many other forms of special access. It also doesn't get used by the OS as a backend for anything. Our sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer implements this by remapping APIs to ones available to sandboxed apps and stubbing out many which aren't needed.
  - asnelt 15d ago
    I couldn't immediately find whether GrapheneOS grants READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE to Google Play. It might very well be that the GrapheneOS sandbox spoofs a fake IMEI, and I do hope so. In any case, my parent comment was meant for stock Pixels, as mentioned by armadyl further up in this thread.
    - grapheneos 14d ago
      The only way to install Google Mobile Services apps including the Play Store on GrapheneOS is as regular sandboxed apps. They aren't granted any of the large number of usual privileged permissions, don't run with the usual far more privileged SELinux policies, aren't used by the OS as a backend for anything and aren't otherwise allowed to do special things by the OS in the usual many ways that is granted. They're regular sandboxed apps on GrapheneOS.
    - nickspacek 15d ago
      https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play > Google Play receives absolutely no special access or privileges on GrapheneOS as opposed to bypassing the app sandbox and receiving a massive amount of highly privileged access. It doesn't mention IMEI here, but hopefully READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE is included in "privileged access."
megagpt5 15d ago
It still works without a SIM card, how do you explain that?
alt227 15d ago
Its possible to set up a phone with a google account without even a sim card in it and use it as a wifi only device, so Im pretty sure what your saying is wrong.
- iririririr 12d ago
  you will be asked for a phone number then.

goodmythical 15d ago

assuming the number you get hasn't previously been assigned to a google account

drxzcl 15d ago
I've had no end of trouble registering an account on our corporate SIMs as the phone numbers (not the actual SIM cards) had been recycled as employees leave.
- edoceo 15d ago
  So many systems cannot handle known pattern of a phone number changing. Who's decided these are imutable values? That I have only one? That it's not shared?

asnelt 15d ago

Even with a burner sim, there is the International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI) number, which is tied to the phone, and is known to all apps with the android.permission.READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE permission.

exceptione 15d ago
That can't be true? <https://grapheneos.org/faq#hardware-identifiers https://grapheneos.org/faq#hardware-identifiers> As of Android 10, apps cannot obtain permission to access non-resettable hardware identifiers such as the serial number, MAC addresses, IMEIs/MEIDs, SIM card serial numbers and subscriber IDs. Only privileged apps included in the base system with READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE whitelisted can access these hardware identifiers. Apps targeting Android 10 will receive a SecurityException and older apps will receive an empty value for compatibility. The currently enabled carrier-based messaging app for SMS/MMS/RCS is a special case that's given access to certain device identifiers including the IMEI. This is normally the GrapheneOS fork of AOSP Messaging but can be changed to another app by the user. Since these restrictions became standard, GrapheneOS only makes a small change to remove a legacy form of access to the serial number by legacy apps, which was still around for compatibility. It used to need more extensive changes such as disallowing access to the serial number but those restrictions are now standard. I don't know however if sandboxed google play is such a privileged app.
- kasabali 15d ago
  Play services isn't an "app", it's a highly privileged system service that has access to everything and some more.
  - exceptione 14d ago
    yes, but not on GOS.
  - grapheneos 14d ago
    The only way to use Play services on GrapheneOS is as a regular sandboxed app. It runs in the standard app sandbox without any of the usual privileged permissions, privileged SELinux policy and many other forms of special access. It also doesn't get used by the OS as a backend for anything. Our sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer implements this by remapping APIs to ones available to sandboxed apps and stubbing out many which aren't needed.
- asnelt 15d ago
  I couldn't immediately find whether GrapheneOS grants READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE to Google Play. It might very well be that the GrapheneOS sandbox spoofs a fake IMEI, and I do hope so. In any case, my parent comment was meant for stock Pixels, as mentioned by armadyl further up in this thread.
  - grapheneos 14d ago
    The only way to install Google Mobile Services apps including the Play Store on GrapheneOS is as regular sandboxed apps. They aren't granted any of the large number of usual privileged permissions, don't run with the usual far more privileged SELinux policies, aren't used by the OS as a backend for anything and aren't otherwise allowed to do special things by the OS in the usual many ways that is granted. They're regular sandboxed apps on GrapheneOS.
  - nickspacek 15d ago
    https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-google-play > Google Play receives absolutely no special access or privileges on GrapheneOS as opposed to bypassing the app sandbox and receiving a massive amount of highly privileged access. It doesn't mention IMEI here, but hopefully READ_PRIVILEGED_PHONE_STATE is included in "privileged access."

megagpt5 15d ago

It still works without a SIM card, how do you explain that?

alt227 15d ago

Its possible to set up a phone with a google account without even a sim card in it and use it as a wifi only device, so Im pretty sure what your saying is wrong.

iririririr 12d ago
you will be asked for a phone number then.