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I imagine the native also built up tolerance over generations, not just knowledge as the article contends . Dying from a specific action is quite the evolutiona

I imagine the native also built up tolerance over generations, not just knowledge as the article contends . Dying from a specific action is quite the evolutionary motivator

culi 16d ago
As with many psychoactive plants and foods, the adaptation here isn't so much a genetic/physiological tolerance as it is an often in-depth body of knowledge/practices for how to utilize the drug/medicine safely. Look at the notorious Datura for example which can cause you to go into a delirious state for over 2 days. The amount of preparation, processing, and knowledge that goes into administering it safely is lost on modern day kids who simply read an Erowid experience about a powerful psychoactive plant that likely grows locally.
- Loughla 16d ago
  Datura is fucking dangerous. Deliriants are no joke in general. That one in particular is really dangerous because it grows absolutely anywhere and is very easy to identify. Source; chemistry was my favorite class in high school and college because it helped me understand how to extract what I wanted from plants like jimsonweed and Mimosa trees. Also no one should do that.
  - skinfaxi 16d ago
    As someone who as extracted dmt from mimosa hostilis, more people should do it than buy god knows what RCs on the darkweb.
    - edoceo 16d ago
      What's RC? Recreational Chemical?
      - russelg 16d ago
        Research chemicals. Typically analogues, and stuff like that.
    - Loughla 16d ago
      That's actually a good point that I hadn't considered. I still maintain that deliriants are for nobody though. DMT is fine in moderation. But anything that is labeled as a deliriant will not give you any kind of joy or knowledge. It will just fuck you for a lot longer than you think.
      - culi 15d ago
        In the Chingichngish religion, a Datura potion was administered either once or 3 times in a person's life (puberty and, in some cultures, also marriage and before death). Not that it was a particularly widely practiced religion. The tribes are ofc intimately familiar with the dangers of Datura. Experts that had studied the plant their whole lives were in charge of this ritual. They knew what season, what time of day, and how to harvest Datura (indeed modern science show Datura alkaloids vary drastically by time of day, weather, and environmental conditions). They also paid attention to the age and condition of the plant and the type of soil. Plants growing in indirect sunlight are less potent and preferred for initiation rituals. People undergoing the ritual had to go through a rigorous physical and dietary regime in the days preceding. They had a clear distinction between a Datura "trance" vs just straight up delirium and the experts would closely watch the person receiving the potion to know how they are doing. The initiate is never left alone and is closely supervised during the full experience (which is multiple days) Anyways my point with all this is that, this is NOT the same experience you get from reading some Erowid posts. Even if you are taking all the precautions. A traditional "trance" that's closely monitored by an expert is a different experience entirely.
    - soniczentropy 16d ago
      It's also extraordinarily easy and discreet to grow cubensis shrooms. The age of buying awesome RCs online are OVER, there's nothing left but horrible, horrible chemicals. Do not go there
      - rootsudo 16d ago
        Actually it’s entering a new era with GLP1s and peptides. Nothing will replace “our” era which ushered in bitcoin, dark net markets and hell true online community which met its end with the analogue act… But it’s a new rebirth. Peptides are here and are unscheduled and do not fall under the analog act. Everything that was experienced in that early 10s era is happening all over again now :)
        herbst 16d ago
        Are there peptites do get high? To my understanding that stuff is more or less the opposite of getting high, more self optimisation, more control about self aspectsy etc.
        Loughla 14d ago
        Tech Bros were micro dosing on lsd for the focus and creativity help. So I'm assuming those are the uses for peptides as well.
        rootsudo 16d ago
        There is one, tianeptine But the rest is all that you said
- ux266478 16d ago
  Most kids that are ingesting the devil's trumpet are doing so explicitly because they're chasing after the anticholinergic toxidrome and the badge of honor. "Safe" doses of nightshades like datura and belladonna dilate your pupils and make you sleepy. That's not what they're interested in the plant for.
- rootsudo 16d ago
  Tbf for me, erowid introduced the idea and taught me how to safely consume it. Then said friends I introduced it to decided to freewheel it once and did end up in a state for 2 days. So I guess information is power or something.
robocat 16d ago
> Dying from a specific action is quite the evolutionary motivator Only if it is before you breed, or you kill your own kids.

I imagine the native also built up tolerance over generations, not just knowledge as the article contends . Dying from a specific action is quite the evolutionary motivator

culi 16d ago

As with many psychoactive plants and foods, the adaptation here isn't so much a genetic/physiological tolerance as it is an often in-depth body of knowledge/practices for how to utilize the drug/medicine safely. Look at the notorious Datura for example which can cause you to go into a delirious state for over 2 days. The amount of preparation, processing, and knowledge that goes into administering it safely is lost on modern day kids who simply read an Erowid experience about a powerful psychoactive plant that likely grows locally.

Loughla 16d ago
Datura is fucking dangerous. Deliriants are no joke in general. That one in particular is really dangerous because it grows absolutely anywhere and is very easy to identify. Source; chemistry was my favorite class in high school and college because it helped me understand how to extract what I wanted from plants like jimsonweed and Mimosa trees. Also no one should do that.
- skinfaxi 16d ago
  As someone who as extracted dmt from mimosa hostilis, more people should do it than buy god knows what RCs on the darkweb.
  - edoceo 16d ago
    What's RC? Recreational Chemical?
    - russelg 16d ago
      Research chemicals. Typically analogues, and stuff like that.
  - Loughla 16d ago
    That's actually a good point that I hadn't considered. I still maintain that deliriants are for nobody though. DMT is fine in moderation. But anything that is labeled as a deliriant will not give you any kind of joy or knowledge. It will just fuck you for a lot longer than you think.
    - culi 15d ago
      In the Chingichngish religion, a Datura potion was administered either once or 3 times in a person's life (puberty and, in some cultures, also marriage and before death). Not that it was a particularly widely practiced religion. The tribes are ofc intimately familiar with the dangers of Datura. Experts that had studied the plant their whole lives were in charge of this ritual. They knew what season, what time of day, and how to harvest Datura (indeed modern science show Datura alkaloids vary drastically by time of day, weather, and environmental conditions). They also paid attention to the age and condition of the plant and the type of soil. Plants growing in indirect sunlight are less potent and preferred for initiation rituals. People undergoing the ritual had to go through a rigorous physical and dietary regime in the days preceding. They had a clear distinction between a Datura "trance" vs just straight up delirium and the experts would closely watch the person receiving the potion to know how they are doing. The initiate is never left alone and is closely supervised during the full experience (which is multiple days) Anyways my point with all this is that, this is NOT the same experience you get from reading some Erowid posts. Even if you are taking all the precautions. A traditional "trance" that's closely monitored by an expert is a different experience entirely.
  - soniczentropy 16d ago
    It's also extraordinarily easy and discreet to grow cubensis shrooms. The age of buying awesome RCs online are OVER, there's nothing left but horrible, horrible chemicals. Do not go there
    - rootsudo 16d ago
      Actually it’s entering a new era with GLP1s and peptides. Nothing will replace “our” era which ushered in bitcoin, dark net markets and hell true online community which met its end with the analogue act… But it’s a new rebirth. Peptides are here and are unscheduled and do not fall under the analog act. Everything that was experienced in that early 10s era is happening all over again now :)
      - herbst 16d ago
        Are there peptites do get high? To my understanding that stuff is more or less the opposite of getting high, more self optimisation, more control about self aspectsy etc.
        Loughla 14d ago
        Tech Bros were micro dosing on lsd for the focus and creativity help. So I'm assuming those are the uses for peptides as well.
        rootsudo 16d ago
        There is one, tianeptine But the rest is all that you said
ux266478 16d ago
Most kids that are ingesting the devil's trumpet are doing so explicitly because they're chasing after the anticholinergic toxidrome and the badge of honor. "Safe" doses of nightshades like datura and belladonna dilate your pupils and make you sleepy. That's not what they're interested in the plant for.
rootsudo 16d ago
Tbf for me, erowid introduced the idea and taught me how to safely consume it. Then said friends I introduced it to decided to freewheel it once and did end up in a state for 2 days. So I guess information is power or something.

robocat 16d ago

> Dying from a specific action is quite the evolutionary motivator Only if it is before you breed, or you kill your own kids.