7 ms·

> They have access to cheap travel, better food What cheap travel? Better food compared to when? Most kids are obese eating poisoned food.

by jsisto 16d ago

goolz 16d ago
I specifically do not want kids because it feels like I would be shortchanging them. I imagine all generations think it was better in their day. But you are right. Owning a car is absurdly expensive, public transit is pretty grim in the US and definitely not cheap, plus our food supply is literal slop. Even the cheap stuff is expensive now. It is truly depressing. I can’t imagine being a kid who has to navigate all that on top of social media and constant agitprop.
- karmakurtisaani 16d ago
  > I imagine all generations think it was better in their day. This might be objectively true these days, considering climate change.
  - matchbok3 16d ago
    Have you ever heard of leaded gas?
    - deleted 16d ago
      [deleted]
    - karmakurtisaani 16d ago
      Did you see the "these days" part in my comment? Edit: nevermind that even, leaded gas was banned in Europe in 2000, and while I was a child in the 90s, it did not affect me or anyone I know negatively (that we know of), so not sure how to interpret your reply at all.
- matchbok3 16d ago
  Shortchanging? Do you have any idea what a "typical" middle class lifestyle was like in the 1960s? (Not the romanticized one). Do you think they were eating organic avocados? Life and technology and healthcare and many other things are objectively better in many, many ways.
  - BeetleB 16d ago
    > Do you have any idea what a "typical" middle class lifestyle was like in the 1960s? You mean the one where they could have 3 kids, send them to college, and graduate with no debt? One of my professors went to UC Berkeley in the 60's. Inflation adjusted, his cost was $700 (I forget if this was per semester or per year).
    - warkdarrior 16d ago
      And those classrooms had no AC (probably), no WiFi, no projectors, no access to (almost unlimited) online resources, no fancy gym, etc etc.
      - BeetleB 16d ago
        The projectors are not worth the extra cost (not even close!). When I think of all the classes I took in over a decade at universities, very few benefited from projectors. They existed mostly for lazy professors who wanted to write a slide deck once and keep using it, without doing interactive work on the whiteboard. Wherever I studied (admittedly in the north), we did not need ACs. Heating was important, and many of the buildings were old and used the same heating they had in the 60's. WiFi: Mostly not in my time either. I certainly don't see it as important in education. I personally didn't even own a WiFi capable device until 2012. Online resources: I'll grant you that, but I'll point out where I went in the early 00's, our low ranked university had excellent Internet access (ranked amongst the top in the country), and the annual cost was $2600. Never found a journal, etc that I didn't have access to. Gym? Seriously? For the extra cost in education, you can go to any good gym! Are you going to tell kids these days "Sorry you can't afford a degree that will help you get a job - we wanted a fancy gym!" Other than the Internet, none of the other items is valuable for most degrees. Personally, in a hotter climate, I'd really want the AC - but I wouldn't pay that much just for an AC.
- krrrh 16d ago
  I guess this is just what selection pressure looks like. It’s possible that adults who struggle to navigate social media and agitprop to the extent that they can’t imagine being able to raise kids in the 21st century might actually be right that their offspring would also struggle.
bluGill 16d ago
When was the last time you met somebody who only walked all thier life? Never rode a horse because only the rich could afford such things. When was the last time you had no food? Starvation used to be a real problem. I'm not taking about running short at the end of the month, I'm talking about there isn't food for even the wealthy people. Food today is safer than ever. You talk about poison, but that is pure lie, it might not be the best, but it isn't moldy because you have a fridge.
- arijun 16d ago
  > You talk about poison, but that is pure lie I think it's fairly well accepted that the high obesity rates are caused by the shifting American diet. Yes it's more available than the 1950s (although I suspect not terribly so), but the effect it has on public health has been a nightmare.
  - kevin_thibedeau 16d ago
    You can just as readily find correlation with behavioral changes linked to a sedentary lifestyle driven by a firehouse of entertainment that first became available with cable television. That doesn't satisfy the orthorexic cause, so isn't discussed much.
  - bluGill 16d ago
    Shifting diet, but poison is the wrong term.
  - SoftTalker 16d ago
    Fundamentally, obesity is caused by an excess of calories. The foods we eat today are more calorie-dense. Even an apple is sweeter and larger than it was in the 1950s. But bottom line people are obese because calories are cheaper and more readily available than they used to be.
- ks2048 16d ago
  He seems to focused on what happened in the last few decades. Your points seem to apply to a much longer time-scale.
BeetleB 16d ago
Regarding travel, you can decide for yourself: https://www.bts.gov/content/annual-us-domestic-average-itinerary-fare-current-and-constant-dollars https://www.bts.gov/content/annual-us-domestic-average-itine...
TFNA 16d ago
It seems uncontroversial to say that young people now, and for the last 25 years, have access to cheaper travel than previous generations. The network of budget airlines in Europe, Asia, and MENA is extensive; I can often find a WizzAir flight for as little as 10€ if I'm willing to fly with just a smaller carry-on. As for long-distance bus travel, FlixBus in Europe sucks in so many ways and has a monopoly over whole countries, but its tickets (if you purchase well in advance) are often cheaper than the local operators that one had to use before.

> They have access to cheap travel, better food What cheap travel? Better food compared to when? Most kids are obese eating poisoned food.

by jsisto 16d ago

> They have access to cheap travel, better food What cheap travel? Better food compared to when? Most kids are obese eating poisoned food.

goolz 16d ago

I specifically do not want kids because it feels like I would be shortchanging them. I imagine all generations think it was better in their day. But you are right. Owning a car is absurdly expensive, public transit is pretty grim in the US and definitely not cheap, plus our food supply is literal slop. Even the cheap stuff is expensive now. It is truly depressing. I can’t imagine being a kid who has to navigate all that on top of social media and constant agitprop.

karmakurtisaani 16d ago
> I imagine all generations think it was better in their day. This might be objectively true these days, considering climate change.
- matchbok3 16d ago
  Have you ever heard of leaded gas?
  - deleted 16d ago
    [deleted]
  - karmakurtisaani 16d ago
    Did you see the "these days" part in my comment? Edit: nevermind that even, leaded gas was banned in Europe in 2000, and while I was a child in the 90s, it did not affect me or anyone I know negatively (that we know of), so not sure how to interpret your reply at all.
matchbok3 16d ago
Shortchanging? Do you have any idea what a "typical" middle class lifestyle was like in the 1960s? (Not the romanticized one). Do you think they were eating organic avocados? Life and technology and healthcare and many other things are objectively better in many, many ways.
- BeetleB 16d ago
  > Do you have any idea what a "typical" middle class lifestyle was like in the 1960s? You mean the one where they could have 3 kids, send them to college, and graduate with no debt? One of my professors went to UC Berkeley in the 60's. Inflation adjusted, his cost was $700 (I forget if this was per semester or per year).
  - warkdarrior 16d ago
    And those classrooms had no AC (probably), no WiFi, no projectors, no access to (almost unlimited) online resources, no fancy gym, etc etc.
    - BeetleB 16d ago
      The projectors are not worth the extra cost (not even close!). When I think of all the classes I took in over a decade at universities, very few benefited from projectors. They existed mostly for lazy professors who wanted to write a slide deck once and keep using it, without doing interactive work on the whiteboard. Wherever I studied (admittedly in the north), we did not need ACs. Heating was important, and many of the buildings were old and used the same heating they had in the 60's. WiFi: Mostly not in my time either. I certainly don't see it as important in education. I personally didn't even own a WiFi capable device until 2012. Online resources: I'll grant you that, but I'll point out where I went in the early 00's, our low ranked university had excellent Internet access (ranked amongst the top in the country), and the annual cost was $2600. Never found a journal, etc that I didn't have access to. Gym? Seriously? For the extra cost in education, you can go to any good gym! Are you going to tell kids these days "Sorry you can't afford a degree that will help you get a job - we wanted a fancy gym!" Other than the Internet, none of the other items is valuable for most degrees. Personally, in a hotter climate, I'd really want the AC - but I wouldn't pay that much just for an AC.
krrrh 16d ago
I guess this is just what selection pressure looks like. It’s possible that adults who struggle to navigate social media and agitprop to the extent that they can’t imagine being able to raise kids in the 21st century might actually be right that their offspring would also struggle.

bluGill 16d ago

When was the last time you met somebody who only walked all thier life? Never rode a horse because only the rich could afford such things. When was the last time you had no food? Starvation used to be a real problem. I'm not taking about running short at the end of the month, I'm talking about there isn't food for even the wealthy people. Food today is safer than ever. You talk about poison, but that is pure lie, it might not be the best, but it isn't moldy because you have a fridge.

arijun 16d ago
> You talk about poison, but that is pure lie I think it's fairly well accepted that the high obesity rates are caused by the shifting American diet. Yes it's more available than the 1950s (although I suspect not terribly so), but the effect it has on public health has been a nightmare.
- kevin_thibedeau 16d ago
  You can just as readily find correlation with behavioral changes linked to a sedentary lifestyle driven by a firehouse of entertainment that first became available with cable television. That doesn't satisfy the orthorexic cause, so isn't discussed much.
- bluGill 16d ago
  Shifting diet, but poison is the wrong term.
- SoftTalker 16d ago
  Fundamentally, obesity is caused by an excess of calories. The foods we eat today are more calorie-dense. Even an apple is sweeter and larger than it was in the 1950s. But bottom line people are obese because calories are cheaper and more readily available than they used to be.
ks2048 16d ago
He seems to focused on what happened in the last few decades. Your points seem to apply to a much longer time-scale.

BeetleB 16d ago

Regarding travel, you can decide for yourself: https://www.bts.gov/content/annual-us-domestic-average-itinerary-fare-current-and-constant-dollars https://www.bts.gov/content/annual-us-domestic-average-itine...

TFNA 16d ago

It seems uncontroversial to say that young people now, and for the last 25 years, have access to cheaper travel than previous generations. The network of budget airlines in Europe, Asia, and MENA is extensive; I can often find a WizzAir flight for as little as 10€ if I'm willing to fly with just a smaller carry-on. As for long-distance bus travel, FlixBus in Europe sucks in so many ways and has a monopoly over whole countries, but its tickets (if you purchase well in advance) are often cheaper than the local operators that one had to use before.