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In Germany, it’s not uncommon for people to not have a credit card. For online purchases, it’s therefore easier to use PayPal at checkout because a direct IBAN

In Germany, it’s not uncommon for people to not have a credit card. For online purchases, it’s therefore easier to use PayPal at checkout because a direct IBAN transfer or debit card might not be accepted by the merchant. Also for splitting smaller amounts among friends and family (less of a moat because this could be done in principal by a SEPA transfer). In other countries Revolut is popular for the friends and family bill splitting, in places like Sweden they have a PayPal-like solution offered by local banks. There’s an upcoming initiative by Brussels to bring all these national initiatives under one umbrella, which would definitely hurt PayPal’s German revenue in future.

jen729w 20d ago
But you have a Visa/Mastercard, surely? A thing with 16 digits that you can plug into the Stripe checkout screen? I have, but never use, a 'credit card'. The thing I use every day is a 'debit card', where the money comes straight from my account. But it still has 16 digits and Visa written on the front.
- WA 20d ago
  Germany: Younger people yes, older people no. They wouldn't know the difference between credit and debit card and everything that looks like a credit card is an invention from hell and instant debt-spiral to them.
- kuschku 20d ago
  In 2019, only 20% of Germans had a Visa/Mastercard. The vast majority of Germans used the German GiroCard network, as many vendors refused Visa/Mastercard due to the higher fees (2-3% vs GiroCard's 0.125%), and there was no real need for it. Even 2019 you had to pay 30-50€/year fee just for a debit MasterCard/Visa, as Germans rarely used them and rarely went into overdraft, so there was little profit to be made. Since then MasterCard has tried to force banks into dropping GiroCard, by refusing to work with smaller banks that still support GiroCard, and by offering better conditions to larger banks that drop GiroCard. This has increased the number of Germans with Visa/MasterCard, but it's still below 50%.
  - jen729w 20d ago
    Mind blown. Thanks. I'm British and I've had a debit card since I was 16 which is a loooooong time ago now, let me tell you.
    - manarth 20d ago
      In the UK, purchases made with a credit card are much more protected than a debit card. If the supplier goes out of business / fails to deliver, the bank/credit card company is equally liable. A Section 75 claim is allowed for purchases between £100 and £30,000. https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/credit-borrowing-money/goods-services-bought-credit https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-...
    - Symbiote 19d ago
      The equivalent in Britain would be a Switch card in the 1990s, the UK's native debit card system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch_(debit_card) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch_(debit_card)
  - whstl 20d ago
    AFAIK, it's actually the "not-really-banks" that don't have Girocard: N26, Revolut, bunq, Vivid, Trade Republic, Wise, Tomorrow, Openbank. All the traditional large ones seem to have AFAIK. Off topic but I really hate N26 and its ilk. They don't really follow the German laws that say that German residents can have bank accounts, so they refuse people that are still on work visas, which is a pain in the fucking ass when you have a startup and the young employees are telling the immigrants "get N26" or something else, but the immigrants can't have it and only learn after submitting lots of docs to N26.
    - dgellow 20d ago
      How did you get N26 to check your visa? I’ve never seen that situation. They only ask for an address in Germany. I know so many people with n26 on work visa
- whstl 20d ago
  I do have a credit card for emergencies but I haven't used in years. It's in the drawer, I didn't even integrate it with Apple Pay. My Girocard has Maestro integration, so I can use it overseas, but no number. Apparently this is gonna go away. The Girocard naturally has ApplePay, which is what I use daily.
omnimus 20d ago
What are you talking about - merchants not accepting debit cards? It's best option for them. People used to use Paypal because they have only debit cards. But with better card security and alternatives like SEPA and Wero there is way less need.
- Semaphor 20d ago
  Wero is just starting on B2C, many business accounts still don't offer it. Not yet comparable to PayPal when talking purchases.

jen729w 20d ago

But you have a Visa/Mastercard, surely? A thing with 16 digits that you can plug into the Stripe checkout screen? I have, but never use, a 'credit card'. The thing I use every day is a 'debit card', where the money comes straight from my account. But it still has 16 digits and Visa written on the front.

WA 20d ago
Germany: Younger people yes, older people no. They wouldn't know the difference between credit and debit card and everything that looks like a credit card is an invention from hell and instant debt-spiral to them.
kuschku 20d ago
In 2019, only 20% of Germans had a Visa/Mastercard. The vast majority of Germans used the German GiroCard network, as many vendors refused Visa/Mastercard due to the higher fees (2-3% vs GiroCard's 0.125%), and there was no real need for it. Even 2019 you had to pay 30-50€/year fee just for a debit MasterCard/Visa, as Germans rarely used them and rarely went into overdraft, so there was little profit to be made. Since then MasterCard has tried to force banks into dropping GiroCard, by refusing to work with smaller banks that still support GiroCard, and by offering better conditions to larger banks that drop GiroCard. This has increased the number of Germans with Visa/MasterCard, but it's still below 50%.
- jen729w 20d ago
  Mind blown. Thanks. I'm British and I've had a debit card since I was 16 which is a loooooong time ago now, let me tell you.
  - manarth 20d ago
    In the UK, purchases made with a credit card are much more protected than a debit card. If the supplier goes out of business / fails to deliver, the bank/credit card company is equally liable. A Section 75 claim is allowed for purchases between £100 and £30,000. https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-can-help/credit-borrowing-money/goods-services-bought-credit https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/consumers/complaints-...
  - Symbiote 19d ago
    The equivalent in Britain would be a Switch card in the 1990s, the UK's native debit card system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch_(debit_card) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch_(debit_card)
- whstl 20d ago
  AFAIK, it's actually the "not-really-banks" that don't have Girocard: N26, Revolut, bunq, Vivid, Trade Republic, Wise, Tomorrow, Openbank. All the traditional large ones seem to have AFAIK. Off topic but I really hate N26 and its ilk. They don't really follow the German laws that say that German residents can have bank accounts, so they refuse people that are still on work visas, which is a pain in the fucking ass when you have a startup and the young employees are telling the immigrants "get N26" or something else, but the immigrants can't have it and only learn after submitting lots of docs to N26.
  - dgellow 20d ago
    How did you get N26 to check your visa? I’ve never seen that situation. They only ask for an address in Germany. I know so many people with n26 on work visa
whstl 20d ago
I do have a credit card for emergencies but I haven't used in years. It's in the drawer, I didn't even integrate it with Apple Pay. My Girocard has Maestro integration, so I can use it overseas, but no number. Apparently this is gonna go away. The Girocard naturally has ApplePay, which is what I use daily.

omnimus 20d ago

What are you talking about - merchants not accepting debit cards? It's best option for them. People used to use Paypal because they have only debit cards. But with better card security and alternatives like SEPA and Wero there is way less need.

Semaphor 20d ago
Wero is just starting on B2C, many business accounts still don't offer it. Not yet comparable to PayPal when talking purchases.