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> Claude told me that PayPal may still be universal way of sending a "gift amounts Meanwhile in china you just scan a qr code. In europe you just send money t
by mittensc 20d ago
> Claude told me that PayPal may still be universal way of sending a "gift amounts
Meanwhile in china you just scan a qr code.
In europe you just send money to their IBAN or they send you a link
Instant payments, no commission...
- sho_hn 20d ago> In europe you just send money to their IBAN or they send you a link You can, but at least in Germany people are reluctant to give their IBAN to others and prefer one degree of separation, so PayPal is still very common for transfers between friends.
- jbstack 20d ago> in Germany people are reluctant to give their IBAN to others Are they worried people might send them money without their permission?
- CodesInChaos 20d agoAn IBAN can be used to take money via SEPA direct debit.
- herbst 20d agoWhich is the problem. Why does something like this even exist?
- darkwater 20d agoBecause it's a convenient lower tech solution where you don't need to be a merchant with access to the debit card system to get monthly (or one-off) money, and it's easy to take or give back money. As other comments say, it's also trivial to claim back a fraudulent charge, it's exposed directly in every online bank system UI.
- herbst 20d agoIn Switzerland the concept of a "Einzugsermächtigung" exists too, but it's a step or two more than just knowing your IBAN. Basically you do this with your bank and not the other way around with the merchant. Is it common to check all your banking stuff every month to make sure there is nothing fraudulent? I don't see how this is practical
- mittensc 20d agoI get notified of all SEPA direct debit requests and need to approve them, only for recurring payments. Perhaps other banks don't do this and that is the problem.
- stnikolauswagne 20d agoMy wife recently filled out a SEPA-Lastschriftmandat for an account in my name and all she needed was my name, IBAN address and a signature. Name and Address is semi-public and signatures can be faked. I'm no financial criminal but I would be shocked if there was no attack vector that gets enabled from knowing an IBAN and a name.
- Semaphor 20d agoThe thing is, burden of proof is with the bank. For a lastschrift, you have 8 weeks to reverse it, if you didn't actually sign the Ermächtigung, you have 13 months. Unless you don't care what transfers happen, that's pretty much always enough time
- stnikolauswagne 20d agoI am not worried about the money staying gone forever and I have ample cash reserves, but I can imagine that someone who might have to worry about a bouncing rent wire or electricity bill would be more worried about their safety cushion potentially being gone until they get it fixed with their bank.
- whstl 20d agoI had a situation where my mortgage took money from my account, but used the wrong company/reference name. I didn't know what it was so I clicked a few buttons in the app and the money was back instantly. That was on Commerzbank. Dunno if others are the same!
- stnikolauswagne 20d agoThe issue is more "I checked my account yesterday, I have 600€ on there, so I know the 150€ utilities bill due today is not an issue" and then a weird withdrawal happens and all of a sudden the utilities payment bounces. Even if i get the money back instantly once I notice it theres still the issue that now I have to deal with a bounced payment to a utilities provider.
- grimoald 20d agoThe IBAN is also used for paying online by debit note. So somebody who knows your IBAN can theoretically buy stuff using your bank account. You can easily reclaim that money, but still there is hassle involved.
- mittensc 20d ago> The IBAN is also used for paying online by debit note How does that even work?
- lifestyleguru 20d agoYou open an account somewhere and when you pay they sneak in consent for direct debit with some dark pattern.
- mittensc 20d agothere are notifications and approvals in bank apps now, they can't take the money until you accept there too and you can revoke from there as well
- lifestyleguru 19d agoi don't want their mobile app
- mittensc 17d agodo it on the website then? or dont do anything and direct debit by default doesnt work
- wewxjfq 20d agoIn the early days of eBay I exchanged money exclusively via bank transfer and had no worries, but for me the Internet has changed and these days I use PayPal to send and receive money from strangers. I see it like this: My email address is already public, so I'm not risking anything when I share it with strangers. My IBAN on the other hand is only known to a few respectable companies, so why change that? Seeing all the online platforms store all your PII without hesitation, but keeping your IBAN only as ****** and handing it straight to a trusted payment processor always reminds me that it's not like the others. Yes, I know businesses put their IBAN on their letter head, but they also have accountants watching their transactions.
- mk89 20d agoIn some MAJOR banks (not gonna say which one), the last digits of the IBAN are also used as username. So basically people outside can lock your online account. I am shocked by how F** dumb this was ever designed.
- master-lincoln 19d agoa user name should not be something that needs to be kept secret. If that is the case, the bank fucked up in my eyes...
- vincnetas 20d agoYes, because you can also debit money from IBAN :) Without consent of owner. Not sure how this works.
- t0mas88 20d agoIf you have the right authorisation on a business account you can "direct debit" from any account. It let's you charge a bank account in a similar way as a US creditcard can be charged by number and expiry date. Technically the contract with your bank says you need to have a signed authorisation from the account owner to charge their account, but you don't have to show it to the bank before charging. The money you get that way isn't guaranteed, the account owner could do a charge back. And if that happens you have to show the signed authorisation from the account owner. If you don't have it, expect your bank to terminate the direct debit ability.
- betteryet 20d agoMany countries including European now have just scan a QR code. The EU payment scheme Wero is bringing that cross-border for EUR. Instant and very low fees.
- mgaunard 20d agoSEPA transfers are zero fees by law.
- ptman 20d agoAnd instant (under 10 seconds)
- AdamN 20d agoNot by default. Deutsche Bank for instance makes you select it and I'm guessing most people are afraid that choosing instant means a fee so they leave it off.
- wewxjfq 20d agoMost banks did charge a fee at first, so this rollout is partly to blame for the option being available and the hesitancy.
- ahartmetz 20d agoThere was another European payment system change to remove* the fees for real-time (official name) transfers, roughly a year ago. Together with the removal of international fees 10? years ago, it is indeed instant (if you check the box) and free across the EU now. IIRC, real-time transfers commonly used to cost 50 cents (flat). * Technically, they aren't allowed to cost more than regular transfers which cost 0 in ~all retail accounts
- diogocp 20d agoNo, they are not.