6 ms·

One thing I've always wanted to ask the aphantasia crowd: think of the Mona Lisa (or the Eiffel Tower). What happens?

0xfaded 21d ago
It exists as a concept, but there's no image of it. Funnily, I'm quite strong at maths and can easily reason about things like dependency graphs in my head, but I don't need to close my eyes to see it. So I can think and type with my eyes open at the same time :p
1135813fib 21d ago
i've always used this image [1] as an example; it's there, but there's no "seeing" attached, just the conceptual understanding. [1] https://preview.redd.it/visualize-an-elephant-v0-p0bwbtow4pq51.jpg?auto=webp&s=4ce3b30879b8fb7139fd53deb1a8fc085ade630b https://preview.redd.it/visualize-an-elephant-v0-p0bwbtow4pq...
- inigyou 20d ago
  Can you post a second source for those of us whom Reddit blocks?
  - tinkertrain 20d ago
    The article has a similar one (horse instead of elephant https://aphantasia.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.aphantasia.com%2Fimages%2Fimagine-horse-concept.png&w=2048&q=75 https://aphantasia.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.a...)
caturopath 21d ago
Think of Beethoven's ninth symphony or a foot massage. You probably don't have the sensation of hearing or of your feet being massaged, you just think about it. You can even do stuff like increase the tempo or decrease the pressure, just like aphantasiacs can turn the Eiffel Tower upside down. They just don't have the experience of seeing.
pstuart 21d ago
I can "see" them but can't visualize them. It's like I know what they look like but if I closed my eyes and trying to visualize the Mona Lisa on a wall I'd just see the variations of darkness that are there. Interestingly enough, doing ketamine therapy can induce visuals but it's like bad AI where I can see flickers and flashes of things but nothing like, say, the penguin scene in Fight Club.
stackbutterflow 20d ago
I have another question I've always wanted to ask. How do you spell words if you can't picture them in your mind? Have you memorized that "pyramid" is spelled p-y-r-a-m-i-d and that for every word? How does it work for Chinese characters? To answer my own question from a non aphantasia perspective the best I can describe it is that I conjure the picture of the word in my mind then I read each letter aloud.
- flemhans 20d ago
  I just know it. And I also think it speeds up certain thinking not having to go through the cycle of visualizing and assessing the visualization. But definitely impairs other things like thinking about geometric relationships.
- cyberax 19d ago
  For spelling, I memorize pseudo-Latin letter pronunciation. For Chinese characters, I memorize the "primitive" characters as a series of strokes (there are only about 10 basic stroke types in Chinese). For complex characters, I'm using mnemonics. E.g. “支”（"branch" or "support") for me is "branch is supporting _ten_ (十）times its weight _again_ (又)".
- mcphage 16d ago
  > How do you spell words if you can't picture them in your mind? > Have you memorized that "pyramid" is spelled p-y-r-a-m-i-d and that for every word? Yes—I wasn't aware that there was another way.
ksec 19d ago
It wasn't until this site did I know there are people with aphantasia but also have the ability to dream with at least some imagery details. To answer your question. Nothing. It is just black. Not even a slight hint of shape of Eiffel Tower or even a tall rectangle or just outline of the structure. It is just nothing. I sometimes think or wonder people who can dream and close their eyes and actually see things must have so much fun.

It exists as a concept, but there's no image of it. Funnily, I'm quite strong at maths and can easily reason about things like dependency graphs in my head, but I don't need to close my eyes to see it. So I can think and type with my eyes open at the same time :p

1135813fib 21d ago

i've always used this image [1] as an example; it's there, but there's no "seeing" attached, just the conceptual understanding. [1] https://preview.redd.it/visualize-an-elephant-v0-p0bwbtow4pq51.jpg?auto=webp&s=4ce3b30879b8fb7139fd53deb1a8fc085ade630b https://preview.redd.it/visualize-an-elephant-v0-p0bwbtow4pq...

inigyou 20d ago
Can you post a second source for those of us whom Reddit blocks?
- tinkertrain 20d ago
  The article has a similar one (horse instead of elephant https://aphantasia.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.aphantasia.com%2Fimages%2Fimagine-horse-concept.png&w=2048&q=75 https://aphantasia.com/_next/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.a...)

caturopath 21d ago

Think of Beethoven's ninth symphony or a foot massage. You probably don't have the sensation of hearing or of your feet being massaged, you just think about it. You can even do stuff like increase the tempo or decrease the pressure, just like aphantasiacs can turn the Eiffel Tower upside down. They just don't have the experience of seeing.

pstuart 21d ago

I can "see" them but can't visualize them. It's like I know what they look like but if I closed my eyes and trying to visualize the Mona Lisa on a wall I'd just see the variations of darkness that are there. Interestingly enough, doing ketamine therapy can induce visuals but it's like bad AI where I can see flickers and flashes of things but nothing like, say, the penguin scene in Fight Club.

stackbutterflow 20d ago

I have another question I've always wanted to ask. How do you spell words if you can't picture them in your mind? Have you memorized that "pyramid" is spelled p-y-r-a-m-i-d and that for every word? How does it work for Chinese characters? To answer my own question from a non aphantasia perspective the best I can describe it is that I conjure the picture of the word in my mind then I read each letter aloud.

flemhans 20d ago
I just know it. And I also think it speeds up certain thinking not having to go through the cycle of visualizing and assessing the visualization. But definitely impairs other things like thinking about geometric relationships.
cyberax 19d ago
For spelling, I memorize pseudo-Latin letter pronunciation. For Chinese characters, I memorize the "primitive" characters as a series of strokes (there are only about 10 basic stroke types in Chinese). For complex characters, I'm using mnemonics. E.g. “支”（"branch" or "support") for me is "branch is supporting _ten_ (十）times its weight _again_ (又)".
mcphage 16d ago
> How do you spell words if you can't picture them in your mind? > Have you memorized that "pyramid" is spelled p-y-r-a-m-i-d and that for every word? Yes—I wasn't aware that there was another way.

ksec 19d ago

It wasn't until this site did I know there are people with aphantasia but also have the ability to dream with at least some imagery details. To answer your question. Nothing. It is just black. Not even a slight hint of shape of Eiffel Tower or even a tall rectangle or just outline of the structure. It is just nothing. I sometimes think or wonder people who can dream and close their eyes and actually see things must have so much fun.