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Many screen and voice actors are unionized, and the unions have been striking and bargaining specifcially over these points. For example: https://sites.suffolk

• r_lee 22d ago
  it's hilarious to see some people here go on about how they're proud to work so that they can be replaced I think too many just expect that they can get by like before because they're a 10x engineer or whatever
  • quaintdev 22d ago
    It won't happen to me is what I used to think
    • georgemcbay 22d ago
      > It won't happen to me is what I used to think In my experience this is what almost everyone thinks, right up to the point where it starts happening to them. And it isn't just an individual blind spot, organizations suffer from the same thing in the sense that many companies will be happy to automate away all their labor to avoid paying the "human tax" without giving much thought to the fact that the need for the company itself will also be automated away soon after. If you can replace nearly all of your workers with some cheap tokens and prompts, everyone else who previously would have been a customer can replace your whole company with the same thing.
      • Melatonic 21d ago
        Exactly. Or a competitor comes in and does what you do for half the cost and double the efficiency.
  • embedding-shape 22d ago
    > it's hilarious to see some people here go on about how they're proud to work so that they can be replaced To be fair, most of us spent our entire career trying our best to automate ourselves away one way or another, and always seen that as our job description.
    • 12ags-18276 22d ago
      No, that is just nerd heroism lore that indeed has always shown up in comments, that part is definitely true. Some people dislike automation altogether and like the computational aspect. Most people seem to enjoy constructing virtual worlds and Rube Goldberg machines.
      • genericone 22d ago
        I thought HN was mostly people who hated doing 'the thing' and would procrastinate until they build a system that does 'the thing' and then they would work tirelessly to never do 'the thing' themselves ever again.
      • embedding-shape 21d ago
        > Some people dislike automation altogether and like the computational aspect Computation IS automation
  • 12ags-18276 22d ago
    [flagged]
    • deleted 22d ago
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  • zamadatix 22d ago
    I think I sit somewhere between these two descriptions. I've always supported unions and other "for the common good" type machinery. At the same time, I desperately also don't want to end up doing something the equivalent of barring the use of calculators just so I can toil away at a 9-5 crunching numbers more slowly instead. If AI really does replace all of the meaningful jobs we can do... great - I'd rather we make sure the spoils of that production are distributed than try to cling to preventing the technology from being used. Inexplicably for the current moment, AI has so far actually meant I have even more to do instead of less. I expect that to change eventually... but man, is it a bit of whiplash to go from wondering if my job will be around in 10 years to starting the work day and being more backed up than ever. Doubly so since the rate of change does not seem to be very evenly distributed by tech role.
    • oblio 22d ago
      > I'd rather we make sure the spoils of that production are distributed than try to cling to preventing the technology from being used. Spoiler alert: unions can help with that.
      • zamadatix 22d ago
        Agreed, but I must've severely messed up my message if that was supposed to be a spoiler. To be clearer: I think the unions, economic policy, and such should help with that part rather than us wield the very same to hide from replacing the work we do with something much easier. I.e., don't be ashamed to work towards that, just come together to ensure we all share the spoils.
  • BeetleB 22d ago
    Much of computing history has been about replacing humans. If they were proud of their work pre-LLMs, then at least they're being consistent! It's kind of hypocritical to change just because it's now a different industry being impacted.
  • qwytw 22d ago
    What options do you have? If you're the 10x engineer you'll be a 100x one and do just fine. Otherwise what can you do besides holding on as long as you can or start searching for a new career.
  • GeorgeWBasic 22d ago
    I agree with your point, but I don't think it's funny at all. The whole field is changing because of this. The career, except for those ones lucky enough to have jobs where they're valued and they can decide how to use AI tools, is turning into shit because of this and software engineers have become a lot less valuable as management is trying to turn them into reverse centaurs.
• catigula 22d ago
  Half of them are from India or China. Racial diversity is known to be detrimental to unionization. In fact, Amazon used this exact strategy to bust nascent Somali unions. https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252481961/Amazons-Whole-Foods-uses-heat-mapping-to-track-unionisation-efforts https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252481961/Amazons-Whole-...
  • 12ahsgf 22d ago
    Here is the obligatory scientific paper for those who cannot observe simple facts without a statistical analysis: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0176268022001215 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01762...
• Lagoon3384_SWE 22d ago
  That is an american take. Sweden just has an "office worker" union. https://www.unionen.se/in-english/this-is-unionen https://www.unionen.se/in-english/this-is-unionen Now, they cannot prevent offshoring or AI use or replacements. Very very rarely if ever. But they can negotiate a large layoff and give better pay/conditions during work etc. This view that unions can prevent anything... when so many jobs have gone to east EU (all amazing and good at what they do but lets face it, it is due to pay) so yea there wont be any union preventing AI...
• arjie 22d ago
  Personally, I just can’t find it in me to be that self-interested. It’s how other people oppose buildings near them because it blocks their view. I really don’t want to stop other people from writing software. If they want to use AI to do it so be it. That’ll be somewhat detrimental to me perhaps (which isn’t certain), but that’s okay. I’d rather attempt to adapt to a changing world.
  • koe123 22d ago
    Thats great, although understand that unionizing protects the more vulnerable of also the software engineered. You not advocating for your rights also means weakening others. Is it still self interested to unionized from that perspective?
  • smallerize 22d ago
    You may be surprised to know that residential areas in San Francisco are height limited, sometimes as short as 4 stories. They're not exactly anti-progress.
    • BeetleB 22d ago
      Height limiting is anti-progress, which was his point.
      • smallerize 22d ago
        Ok SF needs somewhat higher-density housing. But wanting something good for yourself and your peers isn't anti-progress. If the benefits accrue to only a few people, it's not progress.
        • BeetleB 22d ago
          > But wanting something good for yourself and your peers isn't anti-progress. It is if it makes it worse for everyone else.
        • deleted 22d ago
          [deleted]
• boredatoms 22d ago
  No one has offered a union to join at any workplace Ive been at
  • lambda 22d ago
    Yeah, the problem is, someone has to start the union. It takes work. You have to get the whole workforce to vote on it. A lot of software engineers believe (or believed) that they were too smart and professional to need a union. And of course, if management gets wind of it while you are working on setting up the vote, they may do all kinds of trickery, legal or illegal, to block it. It is possible. But it's quite uncommon in this industry in the US. And given the current administration, it is hard to trust you'd get fair enforcement of labor laws if the company did illegal things to block unionization.
• vlyan 22d ago
  >The union demanded clear protections to ensure that recordings of actors’ performances could not be copied without consent and compensation. >California’s legislation passed AB 2602 and AB 1836 in September 2024, prohibiting media companies from using AI to replicate actors’ performances without their consent. it's a very reasonable law, but it is not the win you seem to believe it to be. the actors who refuse to consent will simply be passed over in favor of those who don't. no law will ever be passed to force companies to employ humans over machines, and if it were, the industry would move elsewhere. this is not without precedent :) speech models have got so good so quickly that you can already replace a VA -- even an AAA prima donna -- with a teenager from Fiverr, who will simply bruteforce the right inflection.
  • Melatonic 21d ago
    If they still have to pay an actual person though to license their likeness then they are much more likely to actually employ that person directly to get a better result. And in the cases where quality is not needed the person still gets paid for their AI likeness. Seems like a reasonable take
• isoprophlex 22d ago
  And thus the developers remain, until this very moment, ionized.
  • worthless-trash 22d ago
    I appreciate.
• dzonga 22d ago
  I don't think software developers need to unionize - but to form French style co-ops. e.g a lot of video game studios even the AAA ones could be co-ops. same as a lot of SAAS software companies. Linear - just announced a tender offer. I don't see a reason - why linear couldn't work as a co-op.
  • ameliaquining 22d ago
    Are the employees supposed to front the capital themselves?
• epolanski 22d ago
  Because software developers enjoyed scarcity for most of the fields existence and could barter themselves better conditions instead of falling back to unionized fixed incomes. In any case, the overwhelming majority of jobs is non-unionized and I don't think that software developers can stop technological changes by unionizing.
• ameliaquining 22d ago
  My objection has always been that advocates either can't or don't care to explain how such a thing would actually work from the perspective of a unionized engineer.
• Melatonic 21d ago
  Software engineers and VFX workers also tried to unionise back in the day and there was a giant wage fixing and anti competitive hiring scandal that was majorly illegal. Perpetuated by some of the biggest names in tech. They settled for a large undisclosed sum out of court. But largely won unfortunately as unionisation efforts failed
• miki123211 21d ago
  In the 21st century, the only professions that can successfully unionize are those you can't replace with workers from a non-unionized country. If your students are in Oklahoma, your teachers also have to be in Oklahoma. If the Oklahoma teachers unionize, you have no option but to hire those unionized teachers if you want your students taught. If your bank is in Oklahoma, you can hire programmers in London or buy a SaaS from a company based in Geneva. Programmers also have much less of a reason to unionize, as "quit and go work somewhere else" is often a realistic option. This is usually not the case for teachers, where the only employer seeking their skills in the area is the government, whose idea of what teacher salaries should be is not based on market forces.