6 ms·

Thought they use Sepa

netsharc 20d ago
SEPA uses your IBAN (account number), and one can also enter this account number for payment, implicitly allowing the store to withdraw money from it...
- fuzzy2 20d ago
  Well yes. But just in case this wasn't clear: this is a crime, and you will get your money back in most cases. It's on the merchant to ensure a Direct Debit Mandate is actually valid.
- master-lincoln 20d ago
  I do not think it is possible to withdraw money having only an IBAN. It would need a SEPA direct debit mandate for my bank to accept the transfer request.
- crote 20d ago
  IBANs aren't secret, they have the same level of confidentiality as your address or birth date. One-off SEPA Direct Debit is virtually unheard of, recurring payments are a bit more common but usually involve a €0,01 payment to prove ownership of the account. The transactions are also trivial to undo, and can only be initiated by companies. So no, "IBAN fraud" isn't a thing in practice. You can safely share your IBAN with your friends for instant free wire transfers.
- c7b 20d ago
  You must be referring to SEPA Direct Debit, which would be very risky to use to siphon funds. There's an 8 week no-questions-asked refund policy, 13 months for unauthorized transactions, if the payment fails (eg due to insufficient balance), the payee is charged a non-refundable cancelation fee. [0] And that's all separate from any legal troubles for fraudulent charges. I don't know why Germans use PayPal over SEPA, but I'd be surprised if SEPA Direct Debit was the reason. [0] https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-direct-debit https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-direc...
- skinfaxi 20d ago
  That sounds like the same info on a check, which people hand out freely. I'm probably misunderstanding.
rciorba 20d ago
Sepa is how my kid's daycare debits me each month, or how I transfer money to other accounts (most bills are direct-debit, but sometimes I get a one-off invoice and I have to transfer the money myself). But for the small person-to-person type thing, paypal is the defacto here (sadly).
mr_mitm 20d ago
I wish. The small inconvenience of putting in an IBAN and a matching name instead of just an email address is already enough for many people to default to paypal. Just happened to me again yesterday, the guy preferred to bring cash next time we see each other instead of just receiving my info via text.
- carlosjobim 20d ago
  "The guy" probably let you know in a polite way that you were behaving immaturely. You're not supposed to ask your friends for money to split bills etc. The way grown ups do it is "I pay this time, you pay next time".
  - socksy 20d ago
    This is not how German culture works.
  - drabbiticus 20d ago
    This seems likely to be cultural, possibly even microcultural. I know many adults who believe that splitting bills is a normal and reasonable thing to do.
    - carlosjobim 20d ago
      Splitting bills, where each pay a part in the restaurant, fine. Splitting bills where one pays and the other sends him money, not.
      - drabbiticus 20d ago
        Who is making these rules up? Why do you think they apply universally?
        carlosjobim 19d ago
        God made them, as far as I know. Humanity lived in gift economies long before the invention of barter and trade. These are etiquette rules, which have their benefits. Since nobody is forced to follow etiquette, they help you to learn things about people. Generosity is one of the easiest life hacks to find out who is friendly towards you and who is not. If you buy them a drink and they won't buy you a drink back, that's a tiny cost for you to know what kind of fellow you're dealing with. If they buy you a drink and then asks you to transfer money to them, you also learn something about them. If people splitting bills want to sit and count to make sure that everybody pays exactly for what they had, then you learn something. And so on. If you invite people for dinner a few times, you will learn something about that person whether you wanted to or not.

SEPA uses your IBAN (account number), and one can also enter this account number for payment, implicitly allowing the store to withdraw money from it...

fuzzy2 20d ago
Well yes. But just in case this wasn't clear: this is a crime, and you will get your money back in most cases. It's on the merchant to ensure a Direct Debit Mandate is actually valid.
master-lincoln 20d ago
I do not think it is possible to withdraw money having only an IBAN. It would need a SEPA direct debit mandate for my bank to accept the transfer request.
crote 20d ago
IBANs aren't secret, they have the same level of confidentiality as your address or birth date. One-off SEPA Direct Debit is virtually unheard of, recurring payments are a bit more common but usually involve a €0,01 payment to prove ownership of the account. The transactions are also trivial to undo, and can only be initiated by companies. So no, "IBAN fraud" isn't a thing in practice. You can safely share your IBAN with your friends for instant free wire transfers.
c7b 20d ago
You must be referring to SEPA Direct Debit, which would be very risky to use to siphon funds. There's an 8 week no-questions-asked refund policy, 13 months for unauthorized transactions, if the payment fails (eg due to insufficient balance), the payee is charged a non-refundable cancelation fee. [0] And that's all separate from any legal troubles for fraudulent charges. I don't know why Germans use PayPal over SEPA, but I'd be surprised if SEPA Direct Debit was the reason. [0] https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-direct-debit https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/what-we-do/sepa-direc...
skinfaxi 20d ago
That sounds like the same info on a check, which people hand out freely. I'm probably misunderstanding.

rciorba 20d ago

Sepa is how my kid's daycare debits me each month, or how I transfer money to other accounts (most bills are direct-debit, but sometimes I get a one-off invoice and I have to transfer the money myself). But for the small person-to-person type thing, paypal is the defacto here (sadly).

mr_mitm 20d ago

I wish. The small inconvenience of putting in an IBAN and a matching name instead of just an email address is already enough for many people to default to paypal. Just happened to me again yesterday, the guy preferred to bring cash next time we see each other instead of just receiving my info via text.

carlosjobim 20d ago
"The guy" probably let you know in a polite way that you were behaving immaturely. You're not supposed to ask your friends for money to split bills etc. The way grown ups do it is "I pay this time, you pay next time".
- socksy 20d ago
  This is not how German culture works.
- drabbiticus 20d ago
  This seems likely to be cultural, possibly even microcultural. I know many adults who believe that splitting bills is a normal and reasonable thing to do.
  - carlosjobim 20d ago
    Splitting bills, where each pay a part in the restaurant, fine. Splitting bills where one pays and the other sends him money, not.
    - drabbiticus 20d ago
      Who is making these rules up? Why do you think they apply universally?
      - carlosjobim 19d ago
        God made them, as far as I know. Humanity lived in gift economies long before the invention of barter and trade. These are etiquette rules, which have their benefits. Since nobody is forced to follow etiquette, they help you to learn things about people. Generosity is one of the easiest life hacks to find out who is friendly towards you and who is not. If you buy them a drink and they won't buy you a drink back, that's a tiny cost for you to know what kind of fellow you're dealing with. If they buy you a drink and then asks you to transfer money to them, you also learn something about them. If people splitting bills want to sit and count to make sure that everybody pays exactly for what they had, then you learn something. And so on. If you invite people for dinner a few times, you will learn something about that person whether you wanted to or not.