5 ms·

> but at the rate that Intel and AMD have been catching up on power efficiency Have they? What AMD or Intel laptop with Linux on it can hold a candle to and M4

> but at the rate that Intel and AMD have been catching up on power efficiency Have they? What AMD or Intel laptop with Linux on it can hold a candle to and M4 air or an M4max pro? Genuinely curious, cause I found none...

oblio 21d ago
AMD Strix Halo?
- dmitrygr 21d ago
  "up to 9 hours for light web browsing or everyday tasks" that is 1/3 the battery life of a macbook in the same use case. seems completely incomparable
  - prmoustache 21d ago
    Who works 27h straight far away from a power or usb outlet?
    - pmontra 21d ago
      Probably nobody and I remember when a phone battery lasted one week: nevertheless sometimes we forgot to charge and we run out of battery. So a long lasting battery is good, too long lasting is a waste, which maybe it's your point. However nowadays it could mean running some agents all day long (remote models) and plug in to power only at the end of the day.
    - cosmic_cheese 20d ago
      It’s more about not having to drag a cable + brick around everywhere and not needing to care about the location of the nearest power outlet, potentially for multiple days depending on usage patterns. You can instead leave the charging bits at home or the hotel and charge overnight. This also means that battery cycles accumulate more slowly and the battery’s lifetime is stretched further. Also, generally more efficient chips don’t get hot as easily which makes the laptop more comfortable to use and prevents fans from becoming audible unless you’re really pushing the system.
  - darkwater 21d ago
    I have a M1 Pro from work and it surely won't last that while working. Throw some video calls at it and working outside (so, screen at the brightest level) and at the end of the work day I have to plug it in
    - maccard 21d ago
      Your M1 Pro is 5 years old presumably?
      - darkwater 20d ago
        Indeed it is, but batteries don't degrade 60% over 5 years.
    - hobo123 20d ago
      With load on it and a bright room (= display reasonably bright as well) my M3 also doesn't always last 8h. But it gets very close. Intel machines are more like 3h in that case.
  - izacus 21d ago
    No MacBook runs for 27 hours even if it says so in spec sheet. My 16" doesn't come close to apple claims. (Did we really forget how inflated Apple battery claims really are?)
    - cosmic_cheese 20d ago
      It can get pretty close if avoiding Chrome and Chromium wrappers, especially in airplane mode.
jaimex2 21d ago
No idea but my Framework 12 goes for days without charging. I really haven't seen any real world need for M chips. Granted Im not compiling large projects on a train all day but who is.
- zakisaad 21d ago
  raises hand, but point taken when painting with broad strokes
- porridgeraisin 21d ago
  > Framework 12 ... days without charging I don't see how? it is a 50Wh battery. Even at 6W that is about 8h of usage? On what OS + workload on x86 are you seeing just 6W usage? Or is it that each day your usage is only 2 hours?
  - delamon 21d ago
    My amd thinkpad idles at 3w, watching youtube is about 4.5-5w.
  - jaimex2 20d ago
    It's probably 2-3 hours a day. Runs latest Kubuntu currently.
- finaard 21d ago
  The main power advantage of the apple chips is when the system is mostly idle - under mid to high load power to watt has been comparable for a few years already (at least AMD and Apple, intel was way behind - but I guess they caught up recently). The main reason behind my M3 MBP back then wasn't so much power efficiency - but that I can get it with 96GB of RAM. It's nice that I can go a full office day without charging - the previous x86 notebook couldn't, but a decent one from the M3 generation probably could as well. But also if I put proper load an that thing the Macbook battery is done in less than 2 hours.
Mashimo 21d ago
Framework 13 pro with new Intel chips claims to run 20h of 4k Netflix stream, or 17h of light web browsing @250 nits. That said these numbers are with windows.
- Lio 21d ago
  So the hardware is capable but the Linux distros aren’t quite there yet? Fingers crossed for them then. I love the idea of a Framework laptop but I’m only interested in Linux performance.
  - Mashimo 21d ago
    > but the Linux distros aren’t quite there yet? I just went by what Framework said on release a few weeks or month back. Maybe you can find a more up to date Linux test somewhere. And I bet you can soon get a ThinkPad with the same intel chip, that should have similar battery life.
    - mike97 21d ago
      > And I bet you can soon get a ThinkPad with the same intel chip, that should have similar battery life. Yes you can, speaking from experience. I have the T14 gen 7 with the 75 wh battery, and the 356H CPU, it only uses 4-6w/hour when coding with a lot of browser tabs open, a headless VM running, docker containers and so on, online meetings is about 6-8w/hour, this is under Linux, with default power setting from Opensuse. It can easily last more than 10 working hours, I limit mine to 80% charge as it's more than enough for when I'm on the go.
      - Mashimo 21d ago
        Nice. I still rock the Gen 1 or 2 T14. Works for me, just wish I had a better display. It's possible to upgrade it, just so much conflicting information out there.
  - enragedcacti 20d ago
    Anecdotal, but a CachyOS dev seems quite happy about the 13 Pro battery life in Linux. > Its two working days. Around 15-18 hrs i get out, depending on usage and power profile. If you do heavy compilation or so its much shorter :D > Generally used balanced profile most time with intel lpmd (lpe core task util till threshold). https://www.reddit.com/r/cachyos/comments/1sstqon/comment/ohoypoi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cachyos/comments/1sstqon/comment/oh...

oblio 21d ago

AMD Strix Halo?

dmitrygr 21d ago
"up to 9 hours for light web browsing or everyday tasks" that is 1/3 the battery life of a macbook in the same use case. seems completely incomparable
- prmoustache 21d ago
  Who works 27h straight far away from a power or usb outlet?
  - pmontra 21d ago
    Probably nobody and I remember when a phone battery lasted one week: nevertheless sometimes we forgot to charge and we run out of battery. So a long lasting battery is good, too long lasting is a waste, which maybe it's your point. However nowadays it could mean running some agents all day long (remote models) and plug in to power only at the end of the day.
  - cosmic_cheese 20d ago
    It’s more about not having to drag a cable + brick around everywhere and not needing to care about the location of the nearest power outlet, potentially for multiple days depending on usage patterns. You can instead leave the charging bits at home or the hotel and charge overnight. This also means that battery cycles accumulate more slowly and the battery’s lifetime is stretched further. Also, generally more efficient chips don’t get hot as easily which makes the laptop more comfortable to use and prevents fans from becoming audible unless you’re really pushing the system.
- darkwater 21d ago
  I have a M1 Pro from work and it surely won't last that while working. Throw some video calls at it and working outside (so, screen at the brightest level) and at the end of the work day I have to plug it in
  - maccard 21d ago
    Your M1 Pro is 5 years old presumably?
    - darkwater 20d ago
      Indeed it is, but batteries don't degrade 60% over 5 years.
  - hobo123 20d ago
    With load on it and a bright room (= display reasonably bright as well) my M3 also doesn't always last 8h. But it gets very close. Intel machines are more like 3h in that case.
- izacus 21d ago
  No MacBook runs for 27 hours even if it says so in spec sheet. My 16" doesn't come close to apple claims. (Did we really forget how inflated Apple battery claims really are?)
  - cosmic_cheese 20d ago
    It can get pretty close if avoiding Chrome and Chromium wrappers, especially in airplane mode.

jaimex2 21d ago

No idea but my Framework 12 goes for days without charging. I really haven't seen any real world need for M chips. Granted Im not compiling large projects on a train all day but who is.

zakisaad 21d ago
raises hand, but point taken when painting with broad strokes
porridgeraisin 21d ago
> Framework 12 ... days without charging I don't see how? it is a 50Wh battery. Even at 6W that is about 8h of usage? On what OS + workload on x86 are you seeing just 6W usage? Or is it that each day your usage is only 2 hours?
- delamon 21d ago
  My amd thinkpad idles at 3w, watching youtube is about 4.5-5w.
- jaimex2 20d ago
  It's probably 2-3 hours a day. Runs latest Kubuntu currently.
finaard 21d ago
The main power advantage of the apple chips is when the system is mostly idle - under mid to high load power to watt has been comparable for a few years already (at least AMD and Apple, intel was way behind - but I guess they caught up recently). The main reason behind my M3 MBP back then wasn't so much power efficiency - but that I can get it with 96GB of RAM. It's nice that I can go a full office day without charging - the previous x86 notebook couldn't, but a decent one from the M3 generation probably could as well. But also if I put proper load an that thing the Macbook battery is done in less than 2 hours.

Mashimo 21d ago

Framework 13 pro with new Intel chips claims to run 20h of 4k Netflix stream, or 17h of light web browsing @250 nits. That said these numbers are with windows.

Lio 21d ago
So the hardware is capable but the Linux distros aren’t quite there yet? Fingers crossed for them then. I love the idea of a Framework laptop but I’m only interested in Linux performance.
- Mashimo 21d ago
  > but the Linux distros aren’t quite there yet? I just went by what Framework said on release a few weeks or month back. Maybe you can find a more up to date Linux test somewhere. And I bet you can soon get a ThinkPad with the same intel chip, that should have similar battery life.
  - mike97 21d ago
    > And I bet you can soon get a ThinkPad with the same intel chip, that should have similar battery life. Yes you can, speaking from experience. I have the T14 gen 7 with the 75 wh battery, and the 356H CPU, it only uses 4-6w/hour when coding with a lot of browser tabs open, a headless VM running, docker containers and so on, online meetings is about 6-8w/hour, this is under Linux, with default power setting from Opensuse. It can easily last more than 10 working hours, I limit mine to 80% charge as it's more than enough for when I'm on the go.
    - Mashimo 21d ago
      Nice. I still rock the Gen 1 or 2 T14. Works for me, just wish I had a better display. It's possible to upgrade it, just so much conflicting information out there.
- enragedcacti 20d ago
  Anecdotal, but a CachyOS dev seems quite happy about the 13 Pro battery life in Linux. > Its two working days. Around 15-18 hrs i get out, depending on usage and power profile. If you do heavy compilation or so its much shorter :D > Generally used balanced profile most time with intel lpmd (lpe core task util till threshold). https://www.reddit.com/r/cachyos/comments/1sstqon/comment/ohoypoi/ https://www.reddit.com/r/cachyos/comments/1sstqon/comment/oh...