5 ms·

The ADL has a whole page[1] listing examples of her supposed antisemitism but it basically seems to just be examples of her criticising Israel. I guess the ADL

The ADL has a whole page[1] listing examples of her supposed antisemitism but it basically seems to just be examples of her criticising Israel. I guess the ADL considers that to be the same thing but it is pretty unpersuasive unless you think every criticism of Israel is automatically antisemitism. 1: https://www.adl.org/resources/article/francesca-albanese-her-own-words https://www.adl.org/resources/article/francesca-albanese-her...

jameshilliard 20d ago
[flagged]
- claykkari 20d ago
  > By my reading of just a few of the quotes I'd say she's going well beyond just criticizing Israel. The quotes suggest she believes well known antisemitic conspiracy theories.[0] I'm assuming you're mainly referring to this accusation by the ADL: "Albanese claims that Jews “have learnt [sic] that to survive in this world they need to be superior,” invoking the classic antisemitic conspiracy trope of Jewish power and drive for world domination." Well, except that isn't what she said. The original quote was (still not the full post): "And so they [Germans] have accepted the Jews, but not all of them. Especially those who have learnt that to survive in this world they need to be superior. No longer a fragile minority. No longer diasporic people. No longer the People of the Book. But the Chosen People. ‘Chosen to dominate?’ One may wonder looking at what Israel has become. But Israel does not represent all the Jews." So she was talking about Israeli Jews, not Jews in general. That's the whole point of her post. It's ironic that in fact the ADL is being antisemitic here by equating Judaism with Israel.
  - throw486237 19d ago
    The trick of pretending to be only anti-Zionist is old as the Polish ethnic cleansing of all its leftover Jews in the 1960s. The equivalent would be the UN designating as special rapporteur for American racial issues someone who has said they have nothing against Africans, only against African Americans.
    - jameshilliard 19d ago
      [flagged]
  - jameshilliard 19d ago
    [flagged]
    - ImPostingOnHN 19d ago
      > These antisemitic conspiracy theories predate Israel being a country. Swapping out Jews for Israeli Jews or Jews that support the existence of Israel in statements doesn't negate the statement being fundamentally rooted in an antisemitic conspiracy theory. Which part of the above quote is a conspiracy theory? There do in fact exist jews which consider themselves the chosen people, and who want to dominate Palestine Lebanon Iran Syria etc, and who consider themselves superior to others (e.g. saying Palestinians aren't even people), including many in israel's current government. Indeed, many of their words and actions are evidence for an ongoing international case against israel for genocide. I guess there's a globe-wide conspiracy theory against israel for doing nothing wrong? Given that proper context, the quote reads to me as defending jews like me against the condemnation that israel regularly rightly receives for its behavior. Also, please stop doing this: > Swapping out Jews for Israeli Jews or Jews that support the existence of Israel in statements When you take a criticism of the behavior of a limited group of people, and try to extrapolate it to all jews based on their identity, you are propagating a common antisemetic trope, and engaging in collective blame spreading, which is hurtful. Jewish people have agency, we don't just do whatever israel tells us to do.
      - jameshilliard 17d ago
        > Which part of the above quote is a conspiracy theory? The quote as a whole. > There do in fact exist jews which consider themselves the chosen people, and who want to dominate Palestine Lebanon Iran Syria etc, and who consider themselves superior to others (e.g. saying Palestinians aren't even people), including many in israel's current government. She's painting Jews/Israeli Jews with a very broad antisemitic brush in the quote. I would agree Israel like most countries has extremists, but she doesn't appear to be talking about just them. > Indeed, many of their words and actions are evidence for an ongoing international case against israel for genocide. I guess there's a globe-wide conspiracy theory against israel for doing nothing wrong? The reason the world has double standards when it comes to Israel is largely rooted in antisemitism, and it's certainly a big problem in many countries in the world. It's especially a problem in the middle east. > Given that proper context, the quote reads to me as defending jews like me against the condemnation that israel regularly rightly receives for its behavior. The way the quote is worded I don't consider that to be a reasonable interpretation. > When you take a criticism of the behavior of a limited group of people, and try to extrapolate it to all jews based on their identity, you are propagating a common antisemetic trope, and engaging in collective blame spreading, which is hurtful. Jewish people have agency, we don't just do whatever israel tells us to do. She's the one extrapolating and applying the antisemitic world domination trope. She's making it out as if most/many Jews are involved in world domination.

jameshilliard 20d ago

[flagged]

claykkari 20d ago
> By my reading of just a few of the quotes I'd say she's going well beyond just criticizing Israel. The quotes suggest she believes well known antisemitic conspiracy theories.[0] I'm assuming you're mainly referring to this accusation by the ADL: "Albanese claims that Jews “have learnt [sic] that to survive in this world they need to be superior,” invoking the classic antisemitic conspiracy trope of Jewish power and drive for world domination." Well, except that isn't what she said. The original quote was (still not the full post): "And so they [Germans] have accepted the Jews, but not all of them. Especially those who have learnt that to survive in this world they need to be superior. No longer a fragile minority. No longer diasporic people. No longer the People of the Book. But the Chosen People. ‘Chosen to dominate?’ One may wonder looking at what Israel has become. But Israel does not represent all the Jews." So she was talking about Israeli Jews, not Jews in general. That's the whole point of her post. It's ironic that in fact the ADL is being antisemitic here by equating Judaism with Israel.
- throw486237 19d ago
  The trick of pretending to be only anti-Zionist is old as the Polish ethnic cleansing of all its leftover Jews in the 1960s. The equivalent would be the UN designating as special rapporteur for American racial issues someone who has said they have nothing against Africans, only against African Americans.
  - jameshilliard 19d ago
    [flagged]
- jameshilliard 19d ago
  [flagged]
  - ImPostingOnHN 19d ago
    > These antisemitic conspiracy theories predate Israel being a country. Swapping out Jews for Israeli Jews or Jews that support the existence of Israel in statements doesn't negate the statement being fundamentally rooted in an antisemitic conspiracy theory. Which part of the above quote is a conspiracy theory? There do in fact exist jews which consider themselves the chosen people, and who want to dominate Palestine Lebanon Iran Syria etc, and who consider themselves superior to others (e.g. saying Palestinians aren't even people), including many in israel's current government. Indeed, many of their words and actions are evidence for an ongoing international case against israel for genocide. I guess there's a globe-wide conspiracy theory against israel for doing nothing wrong? Given that proper context, the quote reads to me as defending jews like me against the condemnation that israel regularly rightly receives for its behavior. Also, please stop doing this: > Swapping out Jews for Israeli Jews or Jews that support the existence of Israel in statements When you take a criticism of the behavior of a limited group of people, and try to extrapolate it to all jews based on their identity, you are propagating a common antisemetic trope, and engaging in collective blame spreading, which is hurtful. Jewish people have agency, we don't just do whatever israel tells us to do.
    - jameshilliard 17d ago
      > Which part of the above quote is a conspiracy theory? The quote as a whole. > There do in fact exist jews which consider themselves the chosen people, and who want to dominate Palestine Lebanon Iran Syria etc, and who consider themselves superior to others (e.g. saying Palestinians aren't even people), including many in israel's current government. She's painting Jews/Israeli Jews with a very broad antisemitic brush in the quote. I would agree Israel like most countries has extremists, but she doesn't appear to be talking about just them. > Indeed, many of their words and actions are evidence for an ongoing international case against israel for genocide. I guess there's a globe-wide conspiracy theory against israel for doing nothing wrong? The reason the world has double standards when it comes to Israel is largely rooted in antisemitism, and it's certainly a big problem in many countries in the world. It's especially a problem in the middle east. > Given that proper context, the quote reads to me as defending jews like me against the condemnation that israel regularly rightly receives for its behavior. The way the quote is worded I don't consider that to be a reasonable interpretation. > When you take a criticism of the behavior of a limited group of people, and try to extrapolate it to all jews based on their identity, you are propagating a common antisemetic trope, and engaging in collective blame spreading, which is hurtful. Jewish people have agency, we don't just do whatever israel tells us to do. She's the one extrapolating and applying the antisemitic world domination trope. She's making it out as if most/many Jews are involved in world domination.