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I don't get this argument. We skip over fixing the birthrate and instead rely on immigration. There's a whole bunch of reasons people give for why we can't fix

I don't get this argument. We skip over fixing the birthrate and instead rely on immigration. There's a whole bunch of reasons people give for why we can't fix it like costs, jobs, housing, etc. Ok, so then first wouldn't immigrants also have the same problem once they get here or do they have a way of bypassing our low birthrate somehow but then we were told we can't bypass it, it exists because of the costs, jobs. etc. So the immigrants end up with the same birth rate and then we have to bring in more immigrants. So there would have to be a constant source of excess people somewhere else for this to be sustainable. So it gets to a point where I wonder if this is really the plan.

UncleOxidant 21d ago
> We skip over fixing the birthrate You're assuming the birthrate can be "fixed". Japan has an even worse demographic problem. They've tried "fixing" it and nothing much works. Similar for South Korea. Japan would certainly benefit from opening up to more immigration. Countries that can attract more immigration are going to benefit economically as the birthrates continue to decline globally. Why not be attractive to immigrants instead of wanting to repel them?
- account42 21d ago
  You can definitely fix it. You might not like what it takes but others don't like their culture being replaced either.
  - tuesdaynight 21d ago
    So tell us what it takes, I'm curious
    - 15feetOfclay 21d ago
      Teenage pregnancy, limited rights for unmarried women, heavily surveilled birth-control usage, all that good stuff. So long as the culture is preserved! There are 14 words that basically sum it all up
    - strenholme 21d ago
      Make abortion and contraception illegal, and strongly enforce those laws. It worked with Romania in the 1960s and 1970s. Mind you, it caused a bunch of other problems to crop up, but Romania did solve their low birth rate problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770
      - tuesdaynight 20d ago
        I want to know if that is the proposed solution or if we finally found some libertarian idea that I'm unknown about
        strenholme 20d ago
        The “proposed solutions” are very misogynistic. They include repealing the 19th amendment (not letting women vote), repealing sex discrimination laws, and enforcing “patriarchy”. See, for example https://archive.ph/20260624060135/https://nitter.net/Schtal2/status/2069217060803035485 https://archive.ph/20260624060135/https://nitter.net/Schtal2... for the kind of nonsense these kinds of people are proposing, based on lies and fabrications.
        tuesdaynight 20d ago
        I know what some X users say about that, and I know that some people here have these same ideas. I was just wondering if that is the supposed solution that the person suggested
        strenholme 20d ago
        You’ll have to ask @account42, but I will bet you it’s the same answer I came up with: Take away people’s freedoms and have a hard, strongly enforced (i.e. Orwellian levels of enforcement) ban on contraception and abortions. Both @account42 and myself agree this isn’t a particularly good solution, and I’m not worried about the fertility collapse myself: It is an issue which will last for only one generation.
  - bad_haircut72 21d ago
    Yes, the only way to preserve USAs culture of freedom of the individual is to dissuade/force women from making choices that dont benefit the group. Else we will fall to communism!!
    - strenholme 21d ago
      There is an entire cohort of misogynists on Twitter/X these days who argue we should repeal the 19th and not let women vote. https://archive.ph/AEfUQ https://archive.ph/AEfUQ - https://x.com/Schtal2/status/2069217060803035485 https://x.com/Schtal2/status/2069217060803035485 As an aside, the notion that 80% of the women sleep with 20% of the men is a complete fabrication: https://samboy.github.io/blog/80-20-myth.html https://samboy.github.io/blog/80-20-myth.html
- strenholme 21d ago
  It is very much possible to use government force to solve the birthrate problem. Romania did it in the 1960s. Mind you, this would cause a lot of misery and suffering but it has been done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770

UncleOxidant 21d ago

> We skip over fixing the birthrate You're assuming the birthrate can be "fixed". Japan has an even worse demographic problem. They've tried "fixing" it and nothing much works. Similar for South Korea. Japan would certainly benefit from opening up to more immigration. Countries that can attract more immigration are going to benefit economically as the birthrates continue to decline globally. Why not be attractive to immigrants instead of wanting to repel them?

account42 21d ago
You can definitely fix it. You might not like what it takes but others don't like their culture being replaced either.
- tuesdaynight 21d ago
  So tell us what it takes, I'm curious
  - 15feetOfclay 21d ago
    Teenage pregnancy, limited rights for unmarried women, heavily surveilled birth-control usage, all that good stuff. So long as the culture is preserved! There are 14 words that basically sum it all up
  - strenholme 21d ago
    Make abortion and contraception illegal, and strongly enforce those laws. It worked with Romania in the 1960s and 1970s. Mind you, it caused a bunch of other problems to crop up, but Romania did solve their low birth rate problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770
    - tuesdaynight 20d ago
      I want to know if that is the proposed solution or if we finally found some libertarian idea that I'm unknown about
      - strenholme 20d ago
        The “proposed solutions” are very misogynistic. They include repealing the 19th amendment (not letting women vote), repealing sex discrimination laws, and enforcing “patriarchy”. See, for example https://archive.ph/20260624060135/https://nitter.net/Schtal2/status/2069217060803035485 https://archive.ph/20260624060135/https://nitter.net/Schtal2... for the kind of nonsense these kinds of people are proposing, based on lies and fabrications.
        tuesdaynight 20d ago
        I know what some X users say about that, and I know that some people here have these same ideas. I was just wondering if that is the supposed solution that the person suggested
        strenholme 20d ago
        You’ll have to ask @account42, but I will bet you it’s the same answer I came up with: Take away people’s freedoms and have a hard, strongly enforced (i.e. Orwellian levels of enforcement) ban on contraception and abortions. Both @account42 and myself agree this isn’t a particularly good solution, and I’m not worried about the fertility collapse myself: It is an issue which will last for only one generation.
- bad_haircut72 21d ago
  Yes, the only way to preserve USAs culture of freedom of the individual is to dissuade/force women from making choices that dont benefit the group. Else we will fall to communism!!
  - strenholme 21d ago
    There is an entire cohort of misogynists on Twitter/X these days who argue we should repeal the 19th and not let women vote. https://archive.ph/AEfUQ https://archive.ph/AEfUQ - https://x.com/Schtal2/status/2069217060803035485 https://x.com/Schtal2/status/2069217060803035485 As an aside, the notion that 80% of the women sleep with 20% of the men is a complete fabrication: https://samboy.github.io/blog/80-20-myth.html https://samboy.github.io/blog/80-20-myth.html
strenholme 21d ago
It is very much possible to use government force to solve the birthrate problem. Romania did it in the 1960s. Mind you, this would cause a lot of misery and suffering but it has been done. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decree_770