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I think the whole point of making someone leave is the possibility that they may not be allowed back in. If staying was a foregone conclusion then there’d be no

I think the whole point of making someone leave is the possibility that they may not be allowed back in. If staying was a foregone conclusion then there’d be no point in leaving.

klardotsh 21d ago
I can’t think of any other rationale. What, only border officers are able to process a visa renewal? Please. We can have offices inside the country handle this stuff, just like offices handle Trusted Traveler applications and Social Security card issuances. The point is surely to get another chance to grill the immigrant and potentially bar them entry. Other countries don’t always do this: Canada for example has inland changes of status and I believe renewals.
- pstuart 21d ago
  They've made no secret of the desire to purge the country of "others". This is part of that plan.
  - 15155 21d ago
    "Must leave to renew" certain visas has been policy for decades - through at least the Clinton, Obama, and Biden administrations. Most visas are for temporary guests: obtaining a visa doesn't normally give someone the right to permanently reside, and most don't permit their holders to work.
    - pstuart 20d ago
      Prior administrations were not full-throated nativists. Having a presidential campaign promise of mass deportation (happily consumed by The Base) is proof positive of the mindset of this administration.
- dmix 21d ago
  > I can’t think of any other rationale. Lack of real domestic enforcement would be an obvious one, so everything gets pushed to the border entry points.
  - fn-mote 21d ago
    They know who you are and where you work… how hard could it be to enforce rules? Wait, what’s getting enforced here, anyway? They are getting a new visa, no? I don’t believe this rationale at all.
    - achierius 21d ago
      No, not necessarily. Sometimes visas are rejected. Unless you're talking about giving everyone who gets a visa a green card?
    - 15155 21d ago
      > They know who you are and where you work Most visas don't permit their holder to work. > Wait, what’s getting enforced here, anyway? The visa holder is forced to expend nominal financial resources and time in their home country (where they agreed they would return to.) Most people can't afford to maintain a facade of residency or two actual residences (and those who can aren't the intended targets of this type of restriction.)
      - aveao 21d ago
        You do not need to do it in your "home country" at all, though, is the thing. People plan vacations around appointments they manage to land for this, in countries they want to go for their summer holidays. Additionally, it doesn't really do that either, you don't need a valid visa (only valid status) if you don't plan to leave and re-enter US, so this mainly forces people to stay within US rather than going elsewhere for visiting family, vacation and whatnot. I'd not be surprised if the net effect was less time/money spent in "home country".
    - nomel 21d ago
      > how hard could it be to enforce rules? See the recent events and pushback on immigration enforcement, to answer this, with whole cities (with their judicial system and police) refusing to participate, and governors condemning enforcement.
- 15155 21d ago
  > I can’t think of any other rationale. For many visas, people are expected to maintain a home that they intend to return to in their country of origin. Forcing people to leave every once in a while makes this more likely (at least in theory.)
- iamjackg 21d ago
  Not sure if things have changed recently, but up until at least 2019 (last time I had to do it iirc) you definitely had to do a "flagpole" (drive through the border and immediately turn back) to change your status in Canada.
  - mattkrause 21d ago
    Nah, you can renew work permits online—-and in fact, they push you to. However, the in-country processing takes 6 months while the flagpole option (If you’re eligible) takes 15 minutes.
- jimmydorry 21d ago
  Canada effectively requires leaving and re-entering. It can take multiple months for an online visa to get processed, meanwhile leaving and reentering takes hours.
  - Scoundreller 21d ago
    there were other dumb factors pushing people to do border runs, like your paperwork says "expired" but your status still being valid while being processed. Except you had zero paperwork to show to an employer and they had no way to verify themselves. Even if an employer understood the process and accepted some proof that you submitted an application, they would have no idea if you were rejected and became out-of-status.
preg_match 21d ago
Maybe stimulating the airline economy? Is Big Plane at it again?
aveao 21d ago
Isn't there's a special case with Canada where you can return within x days even if your visa has expired, if your status is valid? Many go there for "consular processing" for that reason if I recall correctly.

I think the whole point of making someone leave is the possibility that they may not be allowed back in. If staying was a foregone conclusion then there’d be no point in leaving.

klardotsh 21d ago

I can’t think of any other rationale. What, only border officers are able to process a visa renewal? Please. We can have offices inside the country handle this stuff, just like offices handle Trusted Traveler applications and Social Security card issuances. The point is surely to get another chance to grill the immigrant and potentially bar them entry. Other countries don’t always do this: Canada for example has inland changes of status and I believe renewals.

pstuart 21d ago
They've made no secret of the desire to purge the country of "others". This is part of that plan.
- 15155 21d ago
  "Must leave to renew" certain visas has been policy for decades - through at least the Clinton, Obama, and Biden administrations. Most visas are for temporary guests: obtaining a visa doesn't normally give someone the right to permanently reside, and most don't permit their holders to work.
  - pstuart 20d ago
    Prior administrations were not full-throated nativists. Having a presidential campaign promise of mass deportation (happily consumed by The Base) is proof positive of the mindset of this administration.
dmix 21d ago
> I can’t think of any other rationale. Lack of real domestic enforcement would be an obvious one, so everything gets pushed to the border entry points.
- fn-mote 21d ago
  They know who you are and where you work… how hard could it be to enforce rules? Wait, what’s getting enforced here, anyway? They are getting a new visa, no? I don’t believe this rationale at all.
  - achierius 21d ago
    No, not necessarily. Sometimes visas are rejected. Unless you're talking about giving everyone who gets a visa a green card?
  - 15155 21d ago
    > They know who you are and where you work Most visas don't permit their holder to work. > Wait, what’s getting enforced here, anyway? The visa holder is forced to expend nominal financial resources and time in their home country (where they agreed they would return to.) Most people can't afford to maintain a facade of residency or two actual residences (and those who can aren't the intended targets of this type of restriction.)
    - aveao 21d ago
      You do not need to do it in your "home country" at all, though, is the thing. People plan vacations around appointments they manage to land for this, in countries they want to go for their summer holidays. Additionally, it doesn't really do that either, you don't need a valid visa (only valid status) if you don't plan to leave and re-enter US, so this mainly forces people to stay within US rather than going elsewhere for visiting family, vacation and whatnot. I'd not be surprised if the net effect was less time/money spent in "home country".
  - nomel 21d ago
    > how hard could it be to enforce rules? See the recent events and pushback on immigration enforcement, to answer this, with whole cities (with their judicial system and police) refusing to participate, and governors condemning enforcement.
15155 21d ago
> I can’t think of any other rationale. For many visas, people are expected to maintain a home that they intend to return to in their country of origin. Forcing people to leave every once in a while makes this more likely (at least in theory.)
iamjackg 21d ago
Not sure if things have changed recently, but up until at least 2019 (last time I had to do it iirc) you definitely had to do a "flagpole" (drive through the border and immediately turn back) to change your status in Canada.
- mattkrause 21d ago
  Nah, you can renew work permits online—-and in fact, they push you to. However, the in-country processing takes 6 months while the flagpole option (If you’re eligible) takes 15 minutes.
jimmydorry 21d ago
Canada effectively requires leaving and re-entering. It can take multiple months for an online visa to get processed, meanwhile leaving and reentering takes hours.
- Scoundreller 21d ago
  there were other dumb factors pushing people to do border runs, like your paperwork says "expired" but your status still being valid while being processed. Except you had zero paperwork to show to an employer and they had no way to verify themselves. Even if an employer understood the process and accepted some proof that you submitted an application, they would have no idea if you were rejected and became out-of-status.

preg_match 21d ago

Maybe stimulating the airline economy? Is Big Plane at it again?

aveao 21d ago

Isn't there's a special case with Canada where you can return within x days even if your visa has expired, if your status is valid? Many go there for "consular processing" for that reason if I recall correctly.