6 ms·

I jumped to the end and saw $2.3k for the mini split and couldn't believe it. I've installed mini splits on two homes and the quotes were always in the $15-25k

by mtlynch 23d ago

I jumped to the end and saw $2.3k for the mini split and couldn't believe it. I've installed mini splits on two homes and the quotes were always in the $15-25k range for 3-5 head units, so $2.3k for a head + outdoor condenser unit sounded implausible, but then I saw he found a surprisingly good deal: > I got a ton of quotes for installing a mini split. They ranged from $4-$7k, which was higher than I expected after researching the cost of a quality small unit and knowing this would be a tiny job for an HVAC contractor, especially because I had my electrician prewire the electrical. I was considering installing a DIY system (Mr. Cool DIY system with pre-charged AC lines), But found an HVAC contractor who would install a system for a much lower price than the other quotes I received (and he had great reviews on Thumbtack). In the end, I got a Daikin Mini-split, a common system with many replacement parts. The installation took about 5 hours, and my tech did a great job. I am glad I researched and got a lot of quotes for this one.

gehwartzen 23d ago
Honestly, I would recommend just doing it yourself. Especially if you have a contractor pull in the electrical connection for it. I installed a pre-charged unit in a much more complicated attic setup (condenser mounted to outside wall on second floor, 20' of refrigerant lines run with lots of angles) and the whole thing took 6-8 hours with no experience. Mounting it to a shed where you're basically just cutting a hole in a wall and the indoor unit and outdoor unit are in more or less the same location should be extremely straight forward. The unit cost me less than $1k five years ago and has been running perfectly ever since.
- lstodd 23d ago
  Pulling in the electrical connection is actually simpler. So you might as well do that yourself too.
  - pwg 22d ago
    It is, but you'd be surprised at the number of folks who will DIY stuff, but won't DIY anything electrical.
    - krn1p4n1c 22d ago
      Insurance won't cover it if you're found to have non-code electrical as the source of a fire. Electricians are expensive, but it's worth having one inspect your work to correct/teach you the approved install method.
      - lstodd 22d ago
        So you do it according to the code or better. No cheaping out on components, no shoddy work. Insurance won't revive you or your loved cat either.
        krn1p4n1c 22d ago
        Ideally yes. For me I found following the code difficult. Then compound that with needing to know the NECA <https://www.necanet.org/topics/codesandstandards/neis/the-standards https://www.necanet.org/topics/codesandstandards/neis/the-st...> + the state codes. It's non-contiguous in the way it's written so you need to know the relevant sections and how to apply them together. Simple things add up; proper color coding of wiring, knowing how much sleeve to leave in at the edge of a box, what cable nuts are appropriate size for the number of wires bonded, size of box needed based on number of wires, how/where boxes can be mounted, space between EMT in bends, what size bus-bar is appropriate and what can share it.
        lstodd 21d ago
        To the first approximation you have to control thermal output of your wiring. Since it's I^2*R, you have to size your wires according to max sustained current, take into account thermal conductivity of where your wires are placed and keep all contacts tight. Also size circuit breakers according to that max current so they trip before the whole thing catastrophically overheats. Which is a trivial exersize in itself. Short-to-case and leak current protection (the reason for three-wire systems/PE conductors and differential protection) takes second place. In larger installations there are also considerations about grounding / ground loops, but that usually does not matter for residential. This is what the most of the code should be about (I never read US ones, but was doing apartments/small homes for like 20 years already). The rest, as in colors, sleeves and exact connectors used is helpful, but not critical, and if you think that a typical contractor would not botch it up in a most horrible way, well..
- chasd00 23d ago
  if someone finds out you did this yourself then can't the city put a lien on your property preventing a sale until you rip everything out and have it re-done by a licensed person? I know with electricity whether you do it per code or not a licensed electrician has to sign off before you can sell your house. at least i think that's how it is..
  - senordevnyc 23d ago
    I mean...what are the odds of that? And if it does happen, it sounds like a hassle, but the overall cost in that scenario probably isn't THAT much higher than having the licensed person do it in the first place? Sure, if the odds are 50/50, or you go to jail, or the fines are $50k or something, then yeah, do it right from the start. But if there's a 2% chance of getting caught, getting caught costs you 150%, and not getting caught costs you 10%...the choice is pretty obvious here, isn't it?
    - deleted 23d ago
      [deleted]
  - ghaff 23d ago
    Barring very obvious problems, I think you're way overestimating how deeply either home inspectors or town/cities are going to be deeply inspecting (especially older) properties and/or permits. My property is over 200 years old and a lot of the work on it has been licensed but there is doubtless a lot that is older.
  - Kirby64 23d ago
    > I know with electricity whether you do it per code or not a licensed electrician has to sign off before you can sell your house. at least i think that's how it is.. Where? No electrician is inspecting every house that goes up for sale in the US. Sure you can ask an electrician to inspect a house electrical… but that doesn’t bar a house sale anywhere I’ve ever seen.
    - pwg 22d ago
- KPGv2 22d ago
  I think the plumbing is by far the hardest part. Electrical is pretty easy. Hard to screw that up. But if you screw up the refrigerant lines, they will leak over time, and your machines will not only stop cooling and the motor will burn out, but HVAC personnel who are licensed to buy refrigerant and re-charge your lines will refuse to work on DIY lines because they then will incur legal liability. I installed my own and paid an HVAC company to very my connections were good, and when it came time to release the refrigerant into the lines, the guy told me I had to do it for legal liability reasons.
digitalsushi 23d ago
one thing about discount DIY mini splits: they're sometimes/often the same model, with a hodge podge of similar but not identical components. it can be very difficult to get a repair person to work on these - they stand a lot to lose if they try to operate on it and make it worse. they really prefer consistency, and - they also seem to harbor a bit of a distaste for diy systems. Actually, I was educated by one serviceperson's opinion and by the end of their complaints, the experience cost more than the cash, injury wise. But I think relaying this, has some value, because I suspect it's common.
- turtlebits 23d ago
  HVAC techs are in such high demand, they can charge exorbitant rates to install/service, that its not in their interest to service them, or even install them. It took me a while to find a company to install a mini split I purchased on my own, and I paid $$ for labor. This was only because I didn't have the time. That said, mini splits are so cheap (sub $500) that its easier to just purchase a new one than repair.
Jnr 23d ago
I bought my first minisplit ~4 years ago since none of the contractors were available in the hot summer. I bought the tools as well (vacuum pump, manifold, pipe cutters, etc.). It cost me ~650$ total. The next time I bought a minisplit (3.5kW one), I already had the tools and it cost me only 450$. A proper one meant for use during harsh winter would probably costs a bit more though, at around 1000$. So I have set up a few of them for my family and friends so far. The units come pre-charged with gas for ~5M of ducts, there is nothing hard to set them up. I also set up ESP32 controllers so I could attach them to Home Assistant, bypassing any Chinese cloud apps, etc.
- ApolloFortyNine 23d ago
  In my state they require: >160 hours of education/vocational training and 2 years’ verifiable experience in the trade To get the license to install minisplits (two years experience generally means working an apprenticeship). It's no wonder install costs are so much in the US. And as you've experienced, they're hardly rocket science to install. The 160 hours training would be more than enough, I'm not sure why 2 years experience gets tacked on the end.
  - stronglikedan 23d ago
    Thankfully, the training is only required if you're doing the installs for/as a business.
    - ApolloFortyNine 23d ago
      I think in pretty much every state releasing the refrigerant 'requires' a license (if it's not a DIY model). And in my state, I copy pasted what was required for a 'residential' HVAC license (idk if you meant commercial HVAC or just making money on installs).
      - zie 23d ago
        Not Montana apparently. They don't even have an HVAC contractor license anymore that I can find.
quickthrowman 23d ago
> I jumped to the end and saw $2.3k for the mini split and couldn't believe it. I've installed mini splits on two homes and the quotes were always in the $15-25k range for 3-5 head units, so $2.3k for a head + outdoor condenser unit sounded implausible, but then I saw he found a surprisingly good deal: It doesn’t take long to install a mini-split condenser with a single air handler. Precast pad for the condensing unit, set the condensing unit on the pad (or buy a wall mount if you need to mount it off the ground), run sealtite to the condenser from the disconnect switch and pull in wire, drill two holes for the line sets and one hole for the power/signal cable that runs from the condenser to the air handler, mount the air handler, connect the line sets, plug in the power/signal cable, install and wire the thermostat. Seal the holes with silicone and turn the mini-split on. It’s less than a day of work, finding a mechanical contractor to install equipment you furnish for $160-175/hr shouldn’t be hard, contractors just like ripping off homeowners because they don’t know any better. You don’t really even need a mechanical contractor with precharged line sets, just ensure the disconnect switch is off and locked out before touching any line voltage wiring, and make sure you mount anything heavy to studs and not plywood or drywall.
- ApolloFortyNine 23d ago
  Minisplits install costs are the biggest scam in the US, in Japan installs regularly cost under $1000 (that includes the minisplit!). They're literally designed to be easy to install, but in the US licensing requirements tend to be insane (in my state it's 2 years apprenticeship experience for their 'easier to get' mini-split license) and HVAC companies make more off whole home systems. These things are regularly installed DIY by homeowners (illegally most of the time but you know), it doesn't take two years of experience to be able to install these without issue. 2 weeks, or half a dozen installs surely would be more than enough.
Kon5ole 23d ago
I couldn't believe it either because it seemed so expensive! EU based colleague got a high-ish end japanese unit (purhased and professionally installed with over 20% VAT on parts and labour) for less than that. The devices can be had for 1000 bucks or less. I figured it had to be because the US devices are very different but they seem to be the same, and the explanation given by the usual automaton suspect was that the climate control business in the US is basically a cartel with highly inflated prices and shady regulations around how they can be sold. Not sure if the claim is valid, but the price diff is remarkable so there must be some explanation. Usually everything you can buy is cheaper in the US.
elric 22d ago
Really? I paid ~1500eur for a Mitsubishi mini split including installation. Not quite sure why your setup would be so insanely expensive.
KPGv2 22d ago
I DIY'd two mini splits for $3,000 that cools about 800 sq ft in Texas summers. Fifty year old house with awful insulation. 27,000 BTUs of cooling capacity. And I'd wager 30% less would've gotten me normal wall units, but I bought the new-ish slim ceiling cassettes that recess into the ceiling so you don't see much more than the grill. The big ass boxes that sit on the wall, my wife wasn't having any of that.

by mtlynch 23d ago

gehwartzen 23d ago

Honestly, I would recommend just doing it yourself. Especially if you have a contractor pull in the electrical connection for it. I installed a pre-charged unit in a much more complicated attic setup (condenser mounted to outside wall on second floor, 20' of refrigerant lines run with lots of angles) and the whole thing took 6-8 hours with no experience. Mounting it to a shed where you're basically just cutting a hole in a wall and the indoor unit and outdoor unit are in more or less the same location should be extremely straight forward. The unit cost me less than $1k five years ago and has been running perfectly ever since.

lstodd 23d ago
Pulling in the electrical connection is actually simpler. So you might as well do that yourself too.
- pwg 22d ago
  It is, but you'd be surprised at the number of folks who will DIY stuff, but won't DIY anything electrical.
  - krn1p4n1c 22d ago
    Insurance won't cover it if you're found to have non-code electrical as the source of a fire. Electricians are expensive, but it's worth having one inspect your work to correct/teach you the approved install method.
    - lstodd 22d ago
      So you do it according to the code or better. No cheaping out on components, no shoddy work. Insurance won't revive you or your loved cat either.
      - krn1p4n1c 22d ago
        Ideally yes. For me I found following the code difficult. Then compound that with needing to know the NECA <https://www.necanet.org/topics/codesandstandards/neis/the-standards https://www.necanet.org/topics/codesandstandards/neis/the-st...> + the state codes. It's non-contiguous in the way it's written so you need to know the relevant sections and how to apply them together. Simple things add up; proper color coding of wiring, knowing how much sleeve to leave in at the edge of a box, what cable nuts are appropriate size for the number of wires bonded, size of box needed based on number of wires, how/where boxes can be mounted, space between EMT in bends, what size bus-bar is appropriate and what can share it.
        lstodd 21d ago
        To the first approximation you have to control thermal output of your wiring. Since it's I^2*R, you have to size your wires according to max sustained current, take into account thermal conductivity of where your wires are placed and keep all contacts tight. Also size circuit breakers according to that max current so they trip before the whole thing catastrophically overheats. Which is a trivial exersize in itself. Short-to-case and leak current protection (the reason for three-wire systems/PE conductors and differential protection) takes second place. In larger installations there are also considerations about grounding / ground loops, but that usually does not matter for residential. This is what the most of the code should be about (I never read US ones, but was doing apartments/small homes for like 20 years already). The rest, as in colors, sleeves and exact connectors used is helpful, but not critical, and if you think that a typical contractor would not botch it up in a most horrible way, well..
chasd00 23d ago
if someone finds out you did this yourself then can't the city put a lien on your property preventing a sale until you rip everything out and have it re-done by a licensed person? I know with electricity whether you do it per code or not a licensed electrician has to sign off before you can sell your house. at least i think that's how it is..
- senordevnyc 23d ago
  I mean...what are the odds of that? And if it does happen, it sounds like a hassle, but the overall cost in that scenario probably isn't THAT much higher than having the licensed person do it in the first place? Sure, if the odds are 50/50, or you go to jail, or the fines are $50k or something, then yeah, do it right from the start. But if there's a 2% chance of getting caught, getting caught costs you 150%, and not getting caught costs you 10%...the choice is pretty obvious here, isn't it?
  - deleted 23d ago
    [deleted]
- ghaff 23d ago
  Barring very obvious problems, I think you're way overestimating how deeply either home inspectors or town/cities are going to be deeply inspecting (especially older) properties and/or permits. My property is over 200 years old and a lot of the work on it has been licensed but there is doubtless a lot that is older.
- Kirby64 23d ago
  > I know with electricity whether you do it per code or not a licensed electrician has to sign off before you can sell your house. at least i think that's how it is.. Where? No electrician is inspecting every house that goes up for sale in the US. Sure you can ask an electrician to inspect a house electrical… but that doesn’t bar a house sale anywhere I’ve ever seen.
  - pwg 22d ago
KPGv2 22d ago
I think the plumbing is by far the hardest part. Electrical is pretty easy. Hard to screw that up. But if you screw up the refrigerant lines, they will leak over time, and your machines will not only stop cooling and the motor will burn out, but HVAC personnel who are licensed to buy refrigerant and re-charge your lines will refuse to work on DIY lines because they then will incur legal liability. I installed my own and paid an HVAC company to very my connections were good, and when it came time to release the refrigerant into the lines, the guy told me I had to do it for legal liability reasons.

digitalsushi 23d ago

one thing about discount DIY mini splits: they're sometimes/often the same model, with a hodge podge of similar but not identical components. it can be very difficult to get a repair person to work on these - they stand a lot to lose if they try to operate on it and make it worse. they really prefer consistency, and - they also seem to harbor a bit of a distaste for diy systems. Actually, I was educated by one serviceperson's opinion and by the end of their complaints, the experience cost more than the cash, injury wise. But I think relaying this, has some value, because I suspect it's common.

turtlebits 23d ago
HVAC techs are in such high demand, they can charge exorbitant rates to install/service, that its not in their interest to service them, or even install them. It took me a while to find a company to install a mini split I purchased on my own, and I paid $$ for labor. This was only because I didn't have the time. That said, mini splits are so cheap (sub $500) that its easier to just purchase a new one than repair.

Jnr 23d ago

I bought my first minisplit ~4 years ago since none of the contractors were available in the hot summer. I bought the tools as well (vacuum pump, manifold, pipe cutters, etc.). It cost me ~650$ total. The next time I bought a minisplit (3.5kW one), I already had the tools and it cost me only 450$. A proper one meant for use during harsh winter would probably costs a bit more though, at around 1000$. So I have set up a few of them for my family and friends so far. The units come pre-charged with gas for ~5M of ducts, there is nothing hard to set them up. I also set up ESP32 controllers so I could attach them to Home Assistant, bypassing any Chinese cloud apps, etc.

ApolloFortyNine 23d ago
In my state they require: >160 hours of education/vocational training and 2 years’ verifiable experience in the trade To get the license to install minisplits (two years experience generally means working an apprenticeship). It's no wonder install costs are so much in the US. And as you've experienced, they're hardly rocket science to install. The 160 hours training would be more than enough, I'm not sure why 2 years experience gets tacked on the end.
- stronglikedan 23d ago
  Thankfully, the training is only required if you're doing the installs for/as a business.
  - ApolloFortyNine 23d ago
    I think in pretty much every state releasing the refrigerant 'requires' a license (if it's not a DIY model). And in my state, I copy pasted what was required for a 'residential' HVAC license (idk if you meant commercial HVAC or just making money on installs).
    - zie 23d ago
      Not Montana apparently. They don't even have an HVAC contractor license anymore that I can find.

quickthrowman 23d ago

> I jumped to the end and saw $2.3k for the mini split and couldn't believe it. I've installed mini splits on two homes and the quotes were always in the $15-25k range for 3-5 head units, so $2.3k for a head + outdoor condenser unit sounded implausible, but then I saw he found a surprisingly good deal: It doesn’t take long to install a mini-split condenser with a single air handler. Precast pad for the condensing unit, set the condensing unit on the pad (or buy a wall mount if you need to mount it off the ground), run sealtite to the condenser from the disconnect switch and pull in wire, drill two holes for the line sets and one hole for the power/signal cable that runs from the condenser to the air handler, mount the air handler, connect the line sets, plug in the power/signal cable, install and wire the thermostat. Seal the holes with silicone and turn the mini-split on. It’s less than a day of work, finding a mechanical contractor to install equipment you furnish for $160-175/hr shouldn’t be hard, contractors just like ripping off homeowners because they don’t know any better. You don’t really even need a mechanical contractor with precharged line sets, just ensure the disconnect switch is off and locked out before touching any line voltage wiring, and make sure you mount anything heavy to studs and not plywood or drywall.

ApolloFortyNine 23d ago
Minisplits install costs are the biggest scam in the US, in Japan installs regularly cost under $1000 (that includes the minisplit!). They're literally designed to be easy to install, but in the US licensing requirements tend to be insane (in my state it's 2 years apprenticeship experience for their 'easier to get' mini-split license) and HVAC companies make more off whole home systems. These things are regularly installed DIY by homeowners (illegally most of the time but you know), it doesn't take two years of experience to be able to install these without issue. 2 weeks, or half a dozen installs surely would be more than enough.

Kon5ole 23d ago

I couldn't believe it either because it seemed so expensive! EU based colleague got a high-ish end japanese unit (purhased and professionally installed with over 20% VAT on parts and labour) for less than that. The devices can be had for 1000 bucks or less. I figured it had to be because the US devices are very different but they seem to be the same, and the explanation given by the usual automaton suspect was that the climate control business in the US is basically a cartel with highly inflated prices and shady regulations around how they can be sold. Not sure if the claim is valid, but the price diff is remarkable so there must be some explanation. Usually everything you can buy is cheaper in the US.

elric 22d ago

Really? I paid ~1500eur for a Mitsubishi mini split including installation. Not quite sure why your setup would be so insanely expensive.

KPGv2 22d ago

I DIY'd two mini splits for $3,000 that cools about 800 sq ft in Texas summers. Fifty year old house with awful insulation. 27,000 BTUs of cooling capacity. And I'd wager 30% less would've gotten me normal wall units, but I bought the new-ish slim ceiling cassettes that recess into the ceiling so you don't see much more than the grill. The big ass boxes that sit on the wall, my wife wasn't having any of that.