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Casting a net is actually one of the less sustainable ways to fish.

tclancy 23d ago
Think you might be casting too wide a net there. It certainly can be.
throwaway2037 23d ago
I am starting to see this lazy response pattern on HN. Someone makes a reasonable comment, then a responder pops-up like a whack-a-mole to say little more than: "That's not true." or "That's still bad." ... while offering no evidence to their claim, nor any reasonable alternative. I think that it adds so little to the conversation. And specific to the comment, they even used the Holy Grail of annoying Internet argument tendencies: "actually".
- HighGoldstein 23d ago
  "You say we should improve society yet participate in it, curious"
  - throwaway2037 23d ago
    Are you referencing this meme? https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/259/257/342.png https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/259/257/342... https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-som...
- Johnny_Bonk 16d ago
  It's not my job on a forum to educate you. It takes two seconds for anyone to do research and evaluate literally any claim, especially now with AI. At this point, unless you live under a rock or never look at any ocean related news, one might have heard that casting massive nets and pulling anything with a pulse out of the sea isn't a great way to fish...
skinfaxi 23d ago
Compared to throwing bombs in the water?
lightedman 23d ago
Which sort of net casting? I grew up with a hand-case 8ft diameter net. I'll guarantee you that's a billion times more sustainable than a trawler.
- Johnny_Bonk 16d ago
  Yes, coming back to this thread after a few days, that is likely not a problem, I was talking about the ~km diameter nets.
red-iron-pine 23d ago
depends on how big the net is. some of those huge trawllers do lots and lots of damage. tempeh can be crazy toxic if spoilt. there is coconut tempeh which is officially banned due to potential for toxic contamination, but which is still super popular -- and routinely kills a couple of people every year.
- fc417fc802 22d ago
  I'm curious. Do you mean spoiled during the production process (ie was inedible to begin with) or spoiled in storage (ie was edible at time of purchase)?
  - nomel 22d ago
    Since fermentation is involved, I don't think there's a clear line between the two.
    - fc417fc802 22d ago
      Fermentation is traditionally a process for preserving things. Provided it's carried out correctly the result will often be shelf stable for quite some time. Another important aspect is that if something does contaminate it there will usually be obvious evidence. I was curious if this was an inherently dangerous dish or if locally a lack of effective regulation of industry was to blame. It sounds like it really is unsafe to at least some extent.
  - dkbrk 22d ago
    Either can happen. The root cause is growth of Burkholderia gladioli [0] on certain foods rich in specific fatty acids, which include coconut and corn. This can happen during the fermentation process of fermented coconut and corn products if there's Burkholderia gladioli contamination and the pH, salinity and temperature aren't controlled to prevent its growth, but it is also possible for Burkholderia gladioli to contaminate food containing coconut or corn after it has been produced and produce bongkrek acid while it is being stored (e.g. [1], which is where I first learned about this). Bongkrek acid [2] is odorless, tasteless and is not destroyed by cooking. Food can show no signs of spoilage and contain a lethal dose, though fermented products that were contaminated during production might show differences in color, texture and smell if the Burkholderi out-competed the normal fermentation process. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkholderia_gladioli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkholderia_gladioli [1]: https://youtu.be/yXnSYfv6bCA?si=7DTW4J0ahMoWUuLd https://youtu.be/yXnSYfv6bCA?si=7DTW4J0ahMoWUuLd [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bongkrek_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bongkrek_acid [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempeh#Tempe_bongkr%C3%A8k https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempeh#Tempe_bongkr%C3%A8k

Think you might be casting too wide a net there. It certainly can be.

throwaway2037 23d ago

I am starting to see this lazy response pattern on HN. Someone makes a reasonable comment, then a responder pops-up like a whack-a-mole to say little more than: "That's not true." or "That's still bad." ... while offering no evidence to their claim, nor any reasonable alternative. I think that it adds so little to the conversation. And specific to the comment, they even used the Holy Grail of annoying Internet argument tendencies: "actually".

HighGoldstein 23d ago
"You say we should improve society yet participate in it, curious"
- throwaway2037 23d ago
  Are you referencing this meme? https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/259/257/342.png https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/259/257/342... https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-som...
Johnny_Bonk 16d ago
It's not my job on a forum to educate you. It takes two seconds for anyone to do research and evaluate literally any claim, especially now with AI. At this point, unless you live under a rock or never look at any ocean related news, one might have heard that casting massive nets and pulling anything with a pulse out of the sea isn't a great way to fish...

skinfaxi 23d ago

Compared to throwing bombs in the water?

lightedman 23d ago

Which sort of net casting? I grew up with a hand-case 8ft diameter net. I'll guarantee you that's a billion times more sustainable than a trawler.

Johnny_Bonk 16d ago
Yes, coming back to this thread after a few days, that is likely not a problem, I was talking about the ~km diameter nets.

red-iron-pine 23d ago

depends on how big the net is. some of those huge trawllers do lots and lots of damage. tempeh can be crazy toxic if spoilt. there is coconut tempeh which is officially banned due to potential for toxic contamination, but which is still super popular -- and routinely kills a couple of people every year.

fc417fc802 22d ago
I'm curious. Do you mean spoiled during the production process (ie was inedible to begin with) or spoiled in storage (ie was edible at time of purchase)?
- nomel 22d ago
  Since fermentation is involved, I don't think there's a clear line between the two.
  - fc417fc802 22d ago
    Fermentation is traditionally a process for preserving things. Provided it's carried out correctly the result will often be shelf stable for quite some time. Another important aspect is that if something does contaminate it there will usually be obvious evidence. I was curious if this was an inherently dangerous dish or if locally a lack of effective regulation of industry was to blame. It sounds like it really is unsafe to at least some extent.
- dkbrk 22d ago
  Either can happen. The root cause is growth of Burkholderia gladioli [0] on certain foods rich in specific fatty acids, which include coconut and corn. This can happen during the fermentation process of fermented coconut and corn products if there's Burkholderia gladioli contamination and the pH, salinity and temperature aren't controlled to prevent its growth, but it is also possible for Burkholderia gladioli to contaminate food containing coconut or corn after it has been produced and produce bongkrek acid while it is being stored (e.g. [1], which is where I first learned about this). Bongkrek acid [2] is odorless, tasteless and is not destroyed by cooking. Food can show no signs of spoilage and contain a lethal dose, though fermented products that were contaminated during production might show differences in color, texture and smell if the Burkholderi out-competed the normal fermentation process. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkholderia_gladioli https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkholderia_gladioli [1]: https://youtu.be/yXnSYfv6bCA?si=7DTW4J0ahMoWUuLd https://youtu.be/yXnSYfv6bCA?si=7DTW4J0ahMoWUuLd [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bongkrek_acid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bongkrek_acid [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempeh#Tempe_bongkr%C3%A8k https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempeh#Tempe_bongkr%C3%A8k