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Before I really started studying philosophy, I was still interested in philosophy, but as a novice. During this time, Nietzsche was my favorite philosopher and

Before I really started studying philosophy, I was still interested in philosophy, but as a novice. During this time, Nietzsche was my favorite philosopher and I read several of his books. I also read a lot of literature, and Nietzsche figured in a lot of the literary texts I enjoyed. Now that I've read a lot more philosophical texts, I realize that both of the big philosophical camps--Anglo-American Analytic Philosophy and Continental Philosophy--rarely mention Nietzsche. Nietzsche seems to be the philosopher that non-philosophers turn to and often cite.

junior44660 22d ago
But Nietzsche has more impact on minds of people. In 100 years I am sure Bronze Age Pervert will be seen as more influential than some random philosophist from random university.
- phainopepla2 22d ago
  I think he's probably seen as more influential now, given that it's widely believed that he's been read by nearly all of the young staffers in the Trump admin. (Hate to have to add this caveat and acquiesce to the Reddit-ification of HN, but: caveat lector, the above statement is not an endorsement)
  - deleted 22d ago
    [deleted]
- chermi 22d ago
  I'm not sure I understand your point? Are you trying to equate the two without saying it directly?
  - junior44660 22d ago
    He will be seen more like Evola than Nietzsche. So not an exact parallel.
    - chermi 22d ago
      I'm trying to make sure I'm not misreading. Your intent was slander by affiliation, yes?
      - junior44660 20d ago
        I am not slander anyone. I big fan of Bronze Pervet.
- mykowebhn 22d ago
  I agree with you. My point is that Nietzsche is not really taken seriously as a philosopher by philosophers (someone included a link to philpapers.org and all I saw were various editions of books written BY Nietzsche, I'm not sure what their point was with that link). Is he widely read by non-philosophers and has he had an impact with this same group? I think he has. If people really are interested in philosophy, I strongly suggest studying the more "classical" philosophers such as Plato, Aristotle, Plotinus, Kant, Frege, Husserl, Heidegger, etc. Nietzsche's writings I would label more as literature and not philosophy. When I reread BGE, standing on its own I find it entertaining, but his readings and understanding of past philosophers were quite wrong. Anecdotally, in my eight years of studying texts with people who are professional philosophers and meeting regularly with them in discussions, I would say Nietzsche's name was mentioned maybe twice, and both times by individuals who were quite new to philosophy. Nietzsche is just not that interesting philosophically.
  - tucnak 22d ago
    > If people really are interested in philosophy, I strongly suggest studying the more "classical" philosophers such as Plato, Aristotle, Plotinus, Kant, Frege, Husserl, Heidegger, etc. Recommending the greeks and Frege in one breath immediately outs you, and shows your philosophy knowledge for what it is, dog shit. You shouldn't be recommending anything about philosophy to anybody. There is absolutely zero reason to study ancient philosophy unless you're interested in HISTORY of philosophy specifically. What Frege, Wittgenstein, Heidegger and other modernists did to 'philosophy' was short of completely reinventing the field from scratch. The connection to antique philosophy is non-existent because there are no tools in Greek discourses relevant to philosophical investigation. It didn't stop even the most stringent analytics to manufacture said connection out of 'romantic' notions, but really there's no geneology to speak of. Plato is closer to Archilochus than Frege, so much so he's almost verging on a joke (philosophically speaking.) It's doubly funny you throwing shade on Nietzsche, who himself was 'romantically' obsessed with the Greeks for no good reason. You're right that Nietzsche is ultimately, of devil's party, a poet, but that has very little bearing vis-a-vis academic philosophy.
    - mykowebhn 22d ago
cmrdporcupine 22d ago
I mean, when I studied continental philosophy in the 90s, there was plenty of Nietzsche discussed. But I'd say, perhaps, more in his influence elsewhere than as primary text. E.g. I did a term studying Heidegger and Nietzsche played into that. Same prof had a 4th year class purely about Nietzsche. (What a great prof, too, my daughter is going to the same school starting next week and I really wish he hadn't retired...) I do think that maybe more recent work in continental schools (perhaps rightly) de-emphasize him as part of a larger turn away from the "postmodern" more broadly vs what was trendy in the 90s.
- senderista 22d ago
  I think Nietszche's anti-egalitarianism makes many otherwise sympathetic modern readers deeply uncomfortable.
keiferski 22d ago
Nietzsche is referenced constantly: https://philpapers.org/asearch.pl?strict=1&searchStr=Nietzsche,%20Friedrich%20Wilhelm&filterMode=authors https://philpapers.org/asearch.pl?strict=1&searchStr=Nietzsc... Also, some pretty substantial continental philosophers wrote about Nietzsche. Heidegger wrote a ton about him. Foucault used his genealogical method. Deleuze, Derrida, etc. all wrote a lot. Heck, half of the big Continental names wrote books on Nietzsche: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche_and_Philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche_and_Philosophy https://sunypress.edu/Books/O/On-Nietzsche https://sunypress.edu/Books/O/On-Nietzsche https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo27619914.html https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo276199... Analytic philosophy indeed didn't write much about Nietzsche, but I don't know why they would have. Very different subject matter and style.
mikert89 22d ago
I had a similar experience, but I think a lot of other modern philosophy is really pedantic and builds upon a thousand years of writings. So its very hard to follow without proper academic study or understanding what its in response to. Nietzsche has paragraphs that could be studied and independently thought about without even reading the rest of the book/chapter. You can crack open beyond good and evil and just start reading a random page. I still would argue his thought is far more groundbreaking than any contemporaries
- pglevy 22d ago
  > paragraphs that could be studied and independently Yes, but after reading BGE, I felt like I had to read all his other books to really understand what he was saying (and others too, Kant, Spinoza, etc). And then re-read BGE. Also Walter Kauffman's on him is very good. Working through that now.
  - mikert89 22d ago
    yeah a lot of uneducated analysis was off, but it was still very thought provoking and jarring to my earlier world view. it depends on which chapters/sections though, some are more accessible than others. one book I enjoyed is: "The Mask of Enlightenment" by stanley rosen. I read that along Zarathustra
chermi 22d ago
1) not true 2) guilt by association? A lot of non-physicists talk about Einstein. I still take his work very seriously.
asgasG 22d ago
Nietzsche is one of the least popular or influential philosophers in post war Germany. You can say it is for the same reasons that Dix finally abandoned him. I don't think he is very deep. He is popular now among the alt-right because he thought Christianity was perverted because it glorified the weak instead of the strong. Hegseth though is hiding on a military base instead of being at the front, so I guess he is weak ... No one reads "Also sprach Zarathustra" in Germany. It is only famous because of Richard Staruss' symphonic poem, which ties into the point that others made: Nietzsche had various influences, but should not be used for policy decisions. Which is probably the reason this Dix article was published during the first Trump years.
- mykowebhn 22d ago
  Right. From a philosophical pov, you could say Nietzsche is quite mid. I agree he seems popular among the angry non-philosophers who want to attach themselves to pseudo-philosophies in order to help them further their agendas. Ah, Nietzsche, you've become such a tool (pun intended).
ShadowandPath 22d ago
[flagged]
aatd86 22d ago
What is a philosopher? Hopefully not someone who constantly refer to others thinking and not their own... tongue-in-cheek

junior44660 22d ago

But Nietzsche has more impact on minds of people. In 100 years I am sure Bronze Age Pervert will be seen as more influential than some random philosophist from random university.

phainopepla2 22d ago
I think he's probably seen as more influential now, given that it's widely believed that he's been read by nearly all of the young staffers in the Trump admin. (Hate to have to add this caveat and acquiesce to the Reddit-ification of HN, but: caveat lector, the above statement is not an endorsement)
- deleted 22d ago
  [deleted]
chermi 22d ago
I'm not sure I understand your point? Are you trying to equate the two without saying it directly?
- junior44660 22d ago
  He will be seen more like Evola than Nietzsche. So not an exact parallel.
  - chermi 22d ago
    I'm trying to make sure I'm not misreading. Your intent was slander by affiliation, yes?
    - junior44660 20d ago
      I am not slander anyone. I big fan of Bronze Pervet.
mykowebhn 22d ago
I agree with you. My point is that Nietzsche is not really taken seriously as a philosopher by philosophers (someone included a link to philpapers.org and all I saw were various editions of books written BY Nietzsche, I'm not sure what their point was with that link). Is he widely read by non-philosophers and has he had an impact with this same group? I think he has. If people really are interested in philosophy, I strongly suggest studying the more "classical" philosophers such as Plato, Aristotle, Plotinus, Kant, Frege, Husserl, Heidegger, etc. Nietzsche's writings I would label more as literature and not philosophy. When I reread BGE, standing on its own I find it entertaining, but his readings and understanding of past philosophers were quite wrong. Anecdotally, in my eight years of studying texts with people who are professional philosophers and meeting regularly with them in discussions, I would say Nietzsche's name was mentioned maybe twice, and both times by individuals who were quite new to philosophy. Nietzsche is just not that interesting philosophically.
- tucnak 22d ago
  > If people really are interested in philosophy, I strongly suggest studying the more "classical" philosophers such as Plato, Aristotle, Plotinus, Kant, Frege, Husserl, Heidegger, etc. Recommending the greeks and Frege in one breath immediately outs you, and shows your philosophy knowledge for what it is, dog shit. You shouldn't be recommending anything about philosophy to anybody. There is absolutely zero reason to study ancient philosophy unless you're interested in HISTORY of philosophy specifically. What Frege, Wittgenstein, Heidegger and other modernists did to 'philosophy' was short of completely reinventing the field from scratch. The connection to antique philosophy is non-existent because there are no tools in Greek discourses relevant to philosophical investigation. It didn't stop even the most stringent analytics to manufacture said connection out of 'romantic' notions, but really there's no geneology to speak of. Plato is closer to Archilochus than Frege, so much so he's almost verging on a joke (philosophically speaking.) It's doubly funny you throwing shade on Nietzsche, who himself was 'romantically' obsessed with the Greeks for no good reason. You're right that Nietzsche is ultimately, of devil's party, a poet, but that has very little bearing vis-a-vis academic philosophy.
  - mykowebhn 22d ago

cmrdporcupine 22d ago

I mean, when I studied continental philosophy in the 90s, there was plenty of Nietzsche discussed. But I'd say, perhaps, more in his influence elsewhere than as primary text. E.g. I did a term studying Heidegger and Nietzsche played into that. Same prof had a 4th year class purely about Nietzsche. (What a great prof, too, my daughter is going to the same school starting next week and I really wish he hadn't retired...) I do think that maybe more recent work in continental schools (perhaps rightly) de-emphasize him as part of a larger turn away from the "postmodern" more broadly vs what was trendy in the 90s.

senderista 22d ago
I think Nietszche's anti-egalitarianism makes many otherwise sympathetic modern readers deeply uncomfortable.

keiferski 22d ago

Nietzsche is referenced constantly: https://philpapers.org/asearch.pl?strict=1&searchStr=Nietzsche,%20Friedrich%20Wilhelm&filterMode=authors https://philpapers.org/asearch.pl?strict=1&searchStr=Nietzsc... Also, some pretty substantial continental philosophers wrote about Nietzsche. Heidegger wrote a ton about him. Foucault used his genealogical method. Deleuze, Derrida, etc. all wrote a lot. Heck, half of the big Continental names wrote books on Nietzsche: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche_and_Philosophy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nietzsche_and_Philosophy https://sunypress.edu/Books/O/On-Nietzsche https://sunypress.edu/Books/O/On-Nietzsche https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo27619914.html https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo276199... Analytic philosophy indeed didn't write much about Nietzsche, but I don't know why they would have. Very different subject matter and style.

mikert89 22d ago

I had a similar experience, but I think a lot of other modern philosophy is really pedantic and builds upon a thousand years of writings. So its very hard to follow without proper academic study or understanding what its in response to. Nietzsche has paragraphs that could be studied and independently thought about without even reading the rest of the book/chapter. You can crack open beyond good and evil and just start reading a random page. I still would argue his thought is far more groundbreaking than any contemporaries

pglevy 22d ago
> paragraphs that could be studied and independently Yes, but after reading BGE, I felt like I had to read all his other books to really understand what he was saying (and others too, Kant, Spinoza, etc). And then re-read BGE. Also Walter Kauffman's on him is very good. Working through that now.
- mikert89 22d ago
  yeah a lot of uneducated analysis was off, but it was still very thought provoking and jarring to my earlier world view. it depends on which chapters/sections though, some are more accessible than others. one book I enjoyed is: "The Mask of Enlightenment" by stanley rosen. I read that along Zarathustra

chermi 22d ago

1) not true 2) guilt by association? A lot of non-physicists talk about Einstein. I still take his work very seriously.

asgasG 22d ago

Nietzsche is one of the least popular or influential philosophers in post war Germany. You can say it is for the same reasons that Dix finally abandoned him. I don't think he is very deep. He is popular now among the alt-right because he thought Christianity was perverted because it glorified the weak instead of the strong. Hegseth though is hiding on a military base instead of being at the front, so I guess he is weak ... No one reads "Also sprach Zarathustra" in Germany. It is only famous because of Richard Staruss' symphonic poem, which ties into the point that others made: Nietzsche had various influences, but should not be used for policy decisions. Which is probably the reason this Dix article was published during the first Trump years.

mykowebhn 22d ago
Right. From a philosophical pov, you could say Nietzsche is quite mid. I agree he seems popular among the angry non-philosophers who want to attach themselves to pseudo-philosophies in order to help them further their agendas. Ah, Nietzsche, you've become such a tool (pun intended).

ShadowandPath 22d ago

[flagged]

aatd86 22d ago

What is a philosopher? Hopefully not someone who constantly refer to others thinking and not their own... tongue-in-cheek