6 ms·

What about the argument of these regulations not existing in the first place were it not for the EU?

dvdkon 23d ago
Without the EU you wouldn't have a single set of annoying overly-bureaucratic bloc-wide regulation for trade between member states, you'd have a bunch of bilateral agreements between individual countries. You might not be paying a new tax to the EU, but instead you'd pay much more for your postal service to file customs paperwork based on declarations you'd have to write. And I'd guess countries would still want you to have a local representative for a bunch of things, not to mention compliance with tens of slightly-different safety standards (think CE). Maybe it wouldn't be that much worse, but certainly not better than what we have today.
- Saline9515 23d ago
  The EU existed for a long time now and you could replace all of this with bilateral organisations focused on narrow topics, rather than a bureaucratic body with an open agenda and no real checks and balances.
corford 22d ago
I never understand this argument. The same logic would suggest that things like the GPL, CNCF, OCI etc. are somehow harmful when, objectively, it's the opposite. Standardisation and conformity lead to much larger and more efficient ecosystems. Why should it not be the same for the EU?
teiferer 22d ago
You think without EU there would be no regulations and everything would be free for all? You must be young or don't remember pre-EU times. In CS terms, the EU turned an O(n^2) problem, bilateral agreements, into an O(n) problem, everybody trying to get their view into a single body. The advantages should be obvious to anybody knowing O notation. Again, not to say EU doesn't have problems. But dismantling the EU is not the solution. Improving it is.
- ShadowOfThePit 22d ago
  Many of the regulations focused on climate change and sustainability wouldn't exist. Now, of course, it's extremely hard to logically argue against these. But that doesn't mean they aren't extremely annoying to deal with at times.
crimsoneer 22d ago
As in the UK, where we've since gotten rid of all the regulation and live in a halcyon utopia.

Without the EU you wouldn't have a single set of annoying overly-bureaucratic bloc-wide regulation for trade between member states, you'd have a bunch of bilateral agreements between individual countries. You might not be paying a new tax to the EU, but instead you'd pay much more for your postal service to file customs paperwork based on declarations you'd have to write. And I'd guess countries would still want you to have a local representative for a bunch of things, not to mention compliance with tens of slightly-different safety standards (think CE). Maybe it wouldn't be that much worse, but certainly not better than what we have today.

Saline9515 23d ago
The EU existed for a long time now and you could replace all of this with bilateral organisations focused on narrow topics, rather than a bureaucratic body with an open agenda and no real checks and balances.

corford 22d ago

I never understand this argument. The same logic would suggest that things like the GPL, CNCF, OCI etc. are somehow harmful when, objectively, it's the opposite. Standardisation and conformity lead to much larger and more efficient ecosystems. Why should it not be the same for the EU?

teiferer 22d ago

You think without EU there would be no regulations and everything would be free for all? You must be young or don't remember pre-EU times. In CS terms, the EU turned an O(n^2) problem, bilateral agreements, into an O(n) problem, everybody trying to get their view into a single body. The advantages should be obvious to anybody knowing O notation. Again, not to say EU doesn't have problems. But dismantling the EU is not the solution. Improving it is.

ShadowOfThePit 22d ago
Many of the regulations focused on climate change and sustainability wouldn't exist. Now, of course, it's extremely hard to logically argue against these. But that doesn't mean they aren't extremely annoying to deal with at times.

crimsoneer 22d ago

As in the UK, where we've since gotten rid of all the regulation and live in a halcyon utopia.