16 ms·

I find it interesting how people justify (or not) whether to eat another animal.

micromacrofoot 23d ago
I like to see where they are farmed before I decide... and having seen much of that in the US I've landed on "maybe some bugs are ok to eat."
sinsterizme 23d ago
Can you explain?
GMoromisato 23d ago
First time talking to humans? We distinguish murder from killing because the latter is sometimes justified (e.g., in war or self-defense). We justify everything we do.
jerrysneede 23d ago
you mean you don't think it's right to make a creature take an IQ test before deciding to eat them or not? "Yes, right, well, you seem sufficiently stupid enough to ingest."
- Dylan16807 23d ago
  There are hazards to doing it on an individual level, but on a species level sure why not? Between a talking plant and a brainless bovine I know which one I'd say is the obvious right answer to eat (assume both species occurred naturally for this thought experiment).
idiotsecant 23d ago
I find it interesting how people vaguepost without managing to make any semblance of contribution to the discussion
King-Aaron 23d ago
Personally that justification is based heavily on the taste.
- 47635274172635 23d ago
  Based on not having a realistic choice. The only person I personally know to successfully pull it off is an acquaintance that's rich by local standards, doesn't work, spends a lot of time sourcing and cooking it, and also eating it. He needs to eat more for same energy. It's so involved that most of his life revolves around it. It takes a good bit out of his time. The rest of the people from that friend group couldn't afford it, couldn't afford spending the money, couldn't afford spending the extra time on it. I personally wouldn't eat meat if I had a good alternative. I rarely do, I eat it for health related reasons, considering my setup.
  - justacrow 23d ago
    ...just buy some beans/lentils and learn to cook those? It's not a herculean effort or particularly expensive.
    - YeGoblynQueenne 23d ago
      Yes, and if you have such a care-free attitude towards a vegan diet you should expect to become deficient in all sorts of necessary nutrients. Everyone who treats plant-based diets with any degree of responsibility will stress the need to plan them carefully, considering the needs of the individual and their stage of life, and to accompany them with supplements to make up for the nutrients that not even well-planned diets cannot provide. For example, "Top Tips" from the British Dietary Association: * Carefully planned plant-based diets can support healthy living at every age and life stage * Plant-based diets can help to manage weight and may reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes and other chronic diseases * You can get all essential nutrients from plant foods but vegans need to ensure a reliable source of vitamin B12 * If excluding dairy, make sure you consume other calcium-rich foods * Include a wide variety of plant-derived foods to ensure your diet is balanced and sustainable https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/vegetarian-vegan-plant-based-diet.html https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/vegetarian-vegan-plant-based... Far, far from "just buy some beans/lentils". TBH that's just irresponsible and dangerous advice.
47635274172635 23d ago
Farm animals wouldn't even have existed in the first place if it wasn't for farming them. They wouldn't have experienced their life at all. I personally think hunting is horrible, that's going after something that is alive without you having a say in it. But say for farmed cows, living in a field for a while, that's better than not existing at all. You cannot judge if it's worth it from the cow's perspective, it got to live, enjoy the sun, eating in the field, doing cow stuff, same as us. Even with the hardships in my life I'd rather have existed, for however long I can, than not existing at all. So you see it's not as simple to look at and judge farming. If it was for you those animals wouldn't even have experienced this reality. It some cases you may be right, depending on their conditions obviously.
- analog31 23d ago
  What's not existing like?
  - 47635274172635 22d ago
    I know what existing is like, and I like it. Cows seem to like it when they sit in the grass looking at a sunset. Beats nothing.
    - analog31 22d ago
      Do cows experience non-existence the way that non-existent humans do, or more like non-existent rocks, or something in between?
      - 47635274172635 21d ago
        You cannot experience non-existence. I don't even think you understand what you mean by non-existence the way you used it in that phrase. At most you can use it as contrast to existence, which can be enjoyable or not. If your existence is the least bit enjoyable it beats not existing. at least for me, and plenty others if you ask them. We also know not existing is desired by others with worse lived experience. Which they think that whatever it even is, not existing, must be better than their lived experience. It's basically a way to stop existing, moving into non-existence. So we can only discuss about existing. If you have any ideas about non-existence that's cute and interesting and you should maybe write a book about it or something. >experience of non-existing rocks. This is not really a philosophical argument as it is misuse of logic and words. I'll let you figure out why.

I like to see where they are farmed before I decide... and having seen much of that in the US I've landed on "maybe some bugs are ok to eat."

sinsterizme 23d ago

Can you explain?

GMoromisato 23d ago

First time talking to humans? We distinguish murder from killing because the latter is sometimes justified (e.g., in war or self-defense). We justify everything we do.

jerrysneede 23d ago

you mean you don't think it's right to make a creature take an IQ test before deciding to eat them or not? "Yes, right, well, you seem sufficiently stupid enough to ingest."

Dylan16807 23d ago
There are hazards to doing it on an individual level, but on a species level sure why not? Between a talking plant and a brainless bovine I know which one I'd say is the obvious right answer to eat (assume both species occurred naturally for this thought experiment).

idiotsecant 23d ago

I find it interesting how people vaguepost without managing to make any semblance of contribution to the discussion

King-Aaron 23d ago

Personally that justification is based heavily on the taste.

47635274172635 23d ago
Based on not having a realistic choice. The only person I personally know to successfully pull it off is an acquaintance that's rich by local standards, doesn't work, spends a lot of time sourcing and cooking it, and also eating it. He needs to eat more for same energy. It's so involved that most of his life revolves around it. It takes a good bit out of his time. The rest of the people from that friend group couldn't afford it, couldn't afford spending the money, couldn't afford spending the extra time on it. I personally wouldn't eat meat if I had a good alternative. I rarely do, I eat it for health related reasons, considering my setup.
- justacrow 23d ago
  ...just buy some beans/lentils and learn to cook those? It's not a herculean effort or particularly expensive.
  - YeGoblynQueenne 23d ago
    Yes, and if you have such a care-free attitude towards a vegan diet you should expect to become deficient in all sorts of necessary nutrients. Everyone who treats plant-based diets with any degree of responsibility will stress the need to plan them carefully, considering the needs of the individual and their stage of life, and to accompany them with supplements to make up for the nutrients that not even well-planned diets cannot provide. For example, "Top Tips" from the British Dietary Association: * Carefully planned plant-based diets can support healthy living at every age and life stage * Plant-based diets can help to manage weight and may reduce the risk of type 2 diabetes and other chronic diseases * You can get all essential nutrients from plant foods but vegans need to ensure a reliable source of vitamin B12 * If excluding dairy, make sure you consume other calcium-rich foods * Include a wide variety of plant-derived foods to ensure your diet is balanced and sustainable https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/vegetarian-vegan-plant-based-diet.html https://www.bda.uk.com/resource/vegetarian-vegan-plant-based... Far, far from "just buy some beans/lentils". TBH that's just irresponsible and dangerous advice.

47635274172635 23d ago

Farm animals wouldn't even have existed in the first place if it wasn't for farming them. They wouldn't have experienced their life at all. I personally think hunting is horrible, that's going after something that is alive without you having a say in it. But say for farmed cows, living in a field for a while, that's better than not existing at all. You cannot judge if it's worth it from the cow's perspective, it got to live, enjoy the sun, eating in the field, doing cow stuff, same as us. Even with the hardships in my life I'd rather have existed, for however long I can, than not existing at all. So you see it's not as simple to look at and judge farming. If it was for you those animals wouldn't even have experienced this reality. It some cases you may be right, depending on their conditions obviously.

analog31 23d ago
What's not existing like?
- 47635274172635 22d ago
  I know what existing is like, and I like it. Cows seem to like it when they sit in the grass looking at a sunset. Beats nothing.
  - analog31 22d ago
    Do cows experience non-existence the way that non-existent humans do, or more like non-existent rocks, or something in between?
    - 47635274172635 21d ago
      You cannot experience non-existence. I don't even think you understand what you mean by non-existence the way you used it in that phrase. At most you can use it as contrast to existence, which can be enjoyable or not. If your existence is the least bit enjoyable it beats not existing. at least for me, and plenty others if you ask them. We also know not existing is desired by others with worse lived experience. Which they think that whatever it even is, not existing, must be better than their lived experience. It's basically a way to stop existing, moving into non-existence. So we can only discuss about existing. If you have any ideas about non-existence that's cute and interesting and you should maybe write a book about it or something. >experience of non-existing rocks. This is not really a philosophical argument as it is misuse of logic and words. I'll let you figure out why.