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"In no event shall CodeFloe or its suppliers be liable for any damages (including, without limitation, damages for loss of data or profit, or due to business in

"In no event shall CodeFloe or its suppliers be liable for any damages (including, without limitation, damages for loss of data or profit, or due to business interruption)" So many fly-by-night "github replacements" popping up. Step 1, buy a hetzner dedi server from the auction for $100/mo. Step 2, install Forgejo. Step 3, ride the wave of anti-US, anti-big-corp senitment to get users onto your platform. Step 4, an HDD fails in your i9-13900k and you lose half of your users' data. If you are going to offer hosting, you need to state what kind of guarantees around data protection you offer.

mtlynch 23d ago
I think you're holding CodeFloe to an unreasonably high standard here. What SaaS vendors agree to financial guarantees if they lose user data or have an outage? Here's GitHub's policy: > We will not be liable for damages or losses arising from your use or inability to use the service or otherwise arising under this agreement. https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-terms-of-service https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-t... Here's Atlassian's policy for BitBucket: > 14. Limitations of Liability > 14.1. Damages Waiver. Except for Excluded Claims or Special Claims, to the maximum extent permitted by Law, neither party will have any liability arising out of or related to this Agreement for any loss of use, lost data, lost profits, interruption of business or any indirect, special, incidental, reliance or consequential damages of any kind, even if informed of their possibility in advance. https://www.atlassian.com/legal/atlassian-customer-agreement#liability https://www.atlassian.com/legal/atlassian-customer-agreement...
- whalesalad 23d ago
  That is fair. This was just the only thing in their terms that I could find that made any mention in regards to data protection. If you are running a service like this, some kind of SLA should exist. I am less concerned with financial protections and more concerned with data protection.
- otterley 23d ago
  > What SaaS vendors agree to financial guarantees if they lose user data or have an outage? Lots of them. See, e.g., https://aws.amazon.com/compute/sla/ https://aws.amazon.com/compute/sla/ Now, they're not written in terms of compensatory or consequential damages, but you will be entitled to a service credit (which is a "financial guarantee" of sorts) if the conditions are met. Private agreements frequently have these sorts of provisions as well. You need to be a pretty big or strategic customer to get those, though, and they're often paired hand-in-hand with long-term agreements with mandatory minimum spend.
  - inigyou 23d ago
    Service credit is practically worthless. Oh we deleted all your data? Here's a month of free hosting for the data you don't have.
    - otterley 20d ago
      Has that actually happened?
stryan 23d ago
At the very least, the main guy behind this is pat-s who was originally a WoodpeckerCI dev and has been in and around Codeberg/Forgejo/Woodpecker for a while so I trust he knows his stuff. His work on CrowCI (Woodpecker fork) has been great. I also swear I've read that same "buy a hetzener dedi install forgejo" etc etc line before, but maybe it's just you're not the only person cynical about the situation.
oytis 23d ago
What kind of guarantres does Github offer?
- baggachipz 23d ago
  None. But I'm willing to bet they'll still be around in 3 years.
  - inigyou 23d ago
    I'm not. There's a reason all these alternatives are getting to the front page.
- dijksterhuis 23d ago
  > Short version: We provide our service as is, and we make no promises or guarantees about this service. Please read this section carefully; you should understand what to expect. https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-terms-of-service#o-disclaimer-of-warranties https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-t... > Short version: We will not be liable for damages or losses arising from your use or inability to use the service or otherwise arising under this agreement. Please read this section carefully; it limits our obligations to you. https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-terms-of-service#p-limitation-of-liability https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-t...
stephenway 23d ago
This is a fair criticism of hosted Forgejo in general. Running Forgejo is the easy part. Backups, restore testing, upgrades, isolation and actually operating it for years are the product. Disclaimer, I run one called Fjord
exiguus 23d ago
IMO the good news about CodeFleo is, that they are very transparent of how they do the job. And as fare as I understand them, they store data in S3.
- inigyou 23d ago
  > they store data in S3 Then their operating costs are extremely high and they will either shut down or find a way to recoup them.
  - exiguus 23d ago
    What does a TB S3 cost a month?
    - inigyou 23d ago
      $23 for storage plus $90 every time you download all of it.
      - exiguus 23d ago
        Maybe they go with Hetzner S3 that cost 7,5EUR/Month for a TB.
        inigyou 22d ago
        That's per TB reserved. At 50% utilisation 15€ per TB stored
  - pat-s 20d ago
    (founder of codefloe) Repo data, which is the majority of the data, is stored on disk. "Packages" (including container images) and other image data on S3. Not on AWS, so costs are like 1/5 or less. We have per account quotas for different types of storage. All of this is transparently explained in our docs. No need for speculation ;)

mtlynch 23d ago

I think you're holding CodeFloe to an unreasonably high standard here. What SaaS vendors agree to financial guarantees if they lose user data or have an outage? Here's GitHub's policy: > We will not be liable for damages or losses arising from your use or inability to use the service or otherwise arising under this agreement. https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-terms-of-service https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-t... Here's Atlassian's policy for BitBucket: > 14. Limitations of Liability > 14.1. Damages Waiver. Except for Excluded Claims or Special Claims, to the maximum extent permitted by Law, neither party will have any liability arising out of or related to this Agreement for any loss of use, lost data, lost profits, interruption of business or any indirect, special, incidental, reliance or consequential damages of any kind, even if informed of their possibility in advance. https://www.atlassian.com/legal/atlassian-customer-agreement#liability https://www.atlassian.com/legal/atlassian-customer-agreement...

whalesalad 23d ago
That is fair. This was just the only thing in their terms that I could find that made any mention in regards to data protection. If you are running a service like this, some kind of SLA should exist. I am less concerned with financial protections and more concerned with data protection.
otterley 23d ago
> What SaaS vendors agree to financial guarantees if they lose user data or have an outage? Lots of them. See, e.g., https://aws.amazon.com/compute/sla/ https://aws.amazon.com/compute/sla/ Now, they're not written in terms of compensatory or consequential damages, but you will be entitled to a service credit (which is a "financial guarantee" of sorts) if the conditions are met. Private agreements frequently have these sorts of provisions as well. You need to be a pretty big or strategic customer to get those, though, and they're often paired hand-in-hand with long-term agreements with mandatory minimum spend.
- inigyou 23d ago
  Service credit is practically worthless. Oh we deleted all your data? Here's a month of free hosting for the data you don't have.
  - otterley 20d ago
    Has that actually happened?

stryan 23d ago

At the very least, the main guy behind this is pat-s who was originally a WoodpeckerCI dev and has been in and around Codeberg/Forgejo/Woodpecker for a while so I trust he knows his stuff. His work on CrowCI (Woodpecker fork) has been great. I also swear I've read that same "buy a hetzener dedi install forgejo" etc etc line before, but maybe it's just you're not the only person cynical about the situation.

oytis 23d ago

What kind of guarantres does Github offer?

baggachipz 23d ago
None. But I'm willing to bet they'll still be around in 3 years.
- inigyou 23d ago
  I'm not. There's a reason all these alternatives are getting to the front page.
dijksterhuis 23d ago
> Short version: We provide our service as is, and we make no promises or guarantees about this service. Please read this section carefully; you should understand what to expect. https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-terms-of-service#o-disclaimer-of-warranties https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-t... > Short version: We will not be liable for damages or losses arising from your use or inability to use the service or otherwise arising under this agreement. Please read this section carefully; it limits our obligations to you. https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-terms-of-service#p-limitation-of-liability https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-t...

stephenway 23d ago

This is a fair criticism of hosted Forgejo in general. Running Forgejo is the easy part. Backups, restore testing, upgrades, isolation and actually operating it for years are the product. Disclaimer, I run one called Fjord

exiguus 23d ago

IMO the good news about CodeFleo is, that they are very transparent of how they do the job. And as fare as I understand them, they store data in S3.

inigyou 23d ago
> they store data in S3 Then their operating costs are extremely high and they will either shut down or find a way to recoup them.
- exiguus 23d ago
  What does a TB S3 cost a month?
  - inigyou 23d ago
    $23 for storage plus $90 every time you download all of it.
    - exiguus 23d ago
      Maybe they go with Hetzner S3 that cost 7,5EUR/Month for a TB.
      - inigyou 22d ago
        That's per TB reserved. At 50% utilisation 15€ per TB stored
- pat-s 20d ago
  (founder of codefloe) Repo data, which is the majority of the data, is stored on disk. "Packages" (including container images) and other image data on S3. Not on AWS, so costs are like 1/5 or less. We have per account quotas for different types of storage. All of this is transparently explained in our docs. No need for speculation ;)