6 ms·

You'd probably be better off using a rail gun if you want a carriable launcher

by roer 29d ago

MomsAVoxell 29d ago
Really? With the required infrastructure to charge it, also in the backpack, for a few weeks of work too? Is gravity a subscription service in your world?
- roer 29d ago
  Depends entirely on the specifics of your usecase what concessions you want to make. One launch location or multiple? What frequency of launch? How heavy are the payloads? How good accuracy? What transport methods are available? How long should it operate without maintenance? Is solar an option if we go electric? Etc.
  - MomsAVoxell 29d ago
    Multiple locations, thus the need for it to be easily portable. I guess a couple hundred launches a day would be useful for seed-bombing/re-wilding, especially on rugged terrain. Seed-bomb weight: I’d say anywhere from 1-10 grams, maybe? Accuracy - it’s a seed bomb, you want dispersal to happen, so maybe the more interesting question is, how would you design a seed bomb to survive the trebuchet speeds and g-forces while also allowing for directed dispersal in the intended area. Seed-bomb design for impact conditions is also something of interest - some seeds need to be embedded in a layer of soil, some don’t. There are many parameters to optimize in the seed-bomb side of things, too. Transport method: backpack-friendly, I think. I’d hike to an area, set up the trebuchet, and spend the day dispersing in a wide circle around the base. If the terrain is rugged, portability is especially important. Operational time - one thing I think is important is that the trebuchet be resilient for long term use. If Toms’ engineering efforts prove fruitful, I’m sure the material construction will get some optimization such that, perhaps, the only thing that would need to be maintained would be the line - however, this is a known science, see for example the sailing industry, rappel lines, etc. Solar/electric? I think a wind attachment for rewinding might be a bit more productive. The scenario: a team of 5 is off for a month in rugged terrain, with the intent of dispersing targeted seed packages over a wide region. The seed bombs are designed to protect the seeds, the trebuchet is designed to deposit them sufficiently well that they remain viable in their final destination. We hike out there for a couple weeks, do a mass trebuchet dispersal, we come back a year later and observe the results.
    - mylies43 29d ago
      Would it not be much faster and more efficient to just a use a helicopter to disperse it instead of hiking and setting up a trebuchet? If you are just launching the seed bombs anyways, i feel like a helicopter can cary way more then one person every code, and could just drop a seed bomb every X seconds? Why the need to have people hike out just to launch the seed bombs
      - MomsAVoxell 29d ago
        You lost me at "just use a helicopter". Seriously, rich people, get out of your own bubble heads now and then. A low-tech, low-resource-intensive, no-dependency application of this technology has huge applications around the world. Do you know how much it costs to operate a helicopter per hour? Now scale it to month-long efforts to turn desert into forests. Scale it to a thousand villagers. Scale it to ten thousand villages. >Why the need to have people hike out just to launch the seed bombs. Because re-wilding requires a hands-on approach to be very effective. Just look at what China has done with the Great Green Wall - this was a labor intensive mega-project. Low-tech, highly effective solutions for seed distribution could be of great benefit in that context - without a bit of fancy speculation on our part, we'd still just have deserts and nothing to eat. YES, you could 'just use a helicopter'. You could just sit back on your deck chair and be served mocktails, too. Sometimes, kids, you need to do a bit of hard work.
        HeyLaughingBoy 29d ago
        > Do you know how much it costs to operate a helicopter Do you know how easy and cheap it is to make gunpowder? I was making black powder rockets from grocery store ingredients when I was 12.
    - anon_cow1111 28d ago
      The railgun guy might have been having a giggle with you, but you gave him some actual numbers so I'll give you some actual math to go with them. Your biggest problem here isn't the launcher, it's the projectile. It's going to be damn near impossible to get a 1 gram projectile more than a couple hundred yards unless it's a dense metal. Doesn't matter how fast it's going, drag always wins here. 10 grams is more plausible, but then you're looking at ~1000ft-lbs cranking energy to get 10g supersonic (@ 40% efficiency) It's doable and you'll only be burning an extra ~100 calories per day for 200 shots. You might get bored though. An airgun will have far worse efficiency most of the time, though it can launch dart-shape things which can go much further for the material density. You mentioned a bow, which is probably the tradeoff point of everything discussed so far. Flight bows are designed for distance shooting, are lightweight and can go 500 yards easily. The downside is you'll need to make the arrows yourself, cause there ain't no supply chain to sell hundreds at a time cheaply. For the "jUsT uSe a hElIcOpTer lol" comment; No, that's not practical, but you CAN get an RC plane that will carry a couple pounds for a tiny fraction of the cost. In terms of how much area it can cover vs supplies needed, that plane is going to be the least thirsty thing on the mountain, assuming you even need to climb it then.
ashdksnndck 29d ago
I thought human-carried railguns were relegated to sci-fi? The power requirements are so high, the only practical mobile railgun is on a ship.
- chocrates 28d ago
  You can buy some on the market now, technically they are coil guns I think. Problem is the muzzle velocity is pretty paltry right now. I think we are stuck behind the energy density of the power source

You'd probably be better off using a rail gun if you want a carriable launcher

by roer 29d ago

You'd probably be better off using a rail gun if you want a carriable launcher

Really? With the required infrastructure to charge it, also in the backpack, for a few weeks of work too? Is gravity a subscription service in your world?

roer 29d ago
Depends entirely on the specifics of your usecase what concessions you want to make. One launch location or multiple? What frequency of launch? How heavy are the payloads? How good accuracy? What transport methods are available? How long should it operate without maintenance? Is solar an option if we go electric? Etc.
- MomsAVoxell 29d ago
  Multiple locations, thus the need for it to be easily portable. I guess a couple hundred launches a day would be useful for seed-bombing/re-wilding, especially on rugged terrain. Seed-bomb weight: I’d say anywhere from 1-10 grams, maybe? Accuracy - it’s a seed bomb, you want dispersal to happen, so maybe the more interesting question is, how would you design a seed bomb to survive the trebuchet speeds and g-forces while also allowing for directed dispersal in the intended area. Seed-bomb design for impact conditions is also something of interest - some seeds need to be embedded in a layer of soil, some don’t. There are many parameters to optimize in the seed-bomb side of things, too. Transport method: backpack-friendly, I think. I’d hike to an area, set up the trebuchet, and spend the day dispersing in a wide circle around the base. If the terrain is rugged, portability is especially important. Operational time - one thing I think is important is that the trebuchet be resilient for long term use. If Toms’ engineering efforts prove fruitful, I’m sure the material construction will get some optimization such that, perhaps, the only thing that would need to be maintained would be the line - however, this is a known science, see for example the sailing industry, rappel lines, etc. Solar/electric? I think a wind attachment for rewinding might be a bit more productive. The scenario: a team of 5 is off for a month in rugged terrain, with the intent of dispersing targeted seed packages over a wide region. The seed bombs are designed to protect the seeds, the trebuchet is designed to deposit them sufficiently well that they remain viable in their final destination. We hike out there for a couple weeks, do a mass trebuchet dispersal, we come back a year later and observe the results.
  - mylies43 29d ago
    Would it not be much faster and more efficient to just a use a helicopter to disperse it instead of hiking and setting up a trebuchet? If you are just launching the seed bombs anyways, i feel like a helicopter can cary way more then one person every code, and could just drop a seed bomb every X seconds? Why the need to have people hike out just to launch the seed bombs
    - MomsAVoxell 29d ago
      You lost me at "just use a helicopter". Seriously, rich people, get out of your own bubble heads now and then. A low-tech, low-resource-intensive, no-dependency application of this technology has huge applications around the world. Do you know how much it costs to operate a helicopter per hour? Now scale it to month-long efforts to turn desert into forests. Scale it to a thousand villagers. Scale it to ten thousand villages. >Why the need to have people hike out just to launch the seed bombs. Because re-wilding requires a hands-on approach to be very effective. Just look at what China has done with the Great Green Wall - this was a labor intensive mega-project. Low-tech, highly effective solutions for seed distribution could be of great benefit in that context - without a bit of fancy speculation on our part, we'd still just have deserts and nothing to eat. YES, you could 'just use a helicopter'. You could just sit back on your deck chair and be served mocktails, too. Sometimes, kids, you need to do a bit of hard work.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 29d ago
        > Do you know how much it costs to operate a helicopter Do you know how easy and cheap it is to make gunpowder? I was making black powder rockets from grocery store ingredients when I was 12.
  - anon_cow1111 28d ago
    The railgun guy might have been having a giggle with you, but you gave him some actual numbers so I'll give you some actual math to go with them. Your biggest problem here isn't the launcher, it's the projectile. It's going to be damn near impossible to get a 1 gram projectile more than a couple hundred yards unless it's a dense metal. Doesn't matter how fast it's going, drag always wins here. 10 grams is more plausible, but then you're looking at ~1000ft-lbs cranking energy to get 10g supersonic (@ 40% efficiency) It's doable and you'll only be burning an extra ~100 calories per day for 200 shots. You might get bored though. An airgun will have far worse efficiency most of the time, though it can launch dart-shape things which can go much further for the material density. You mentioned a bow, which is probably the tradeoff point of everything discussed so far. Flight bows are designed for distance shooting, are lightweight and can go 500 yards easily. The downside is you'll need to make the arrows yourself, cause there ain't no supply chain to sell hundreds at a time cheaply. For the "jUsT uSe a hElIcOpTer lol" comment; No, that's not practical, but you CAN get an RC plane that will carry a couple pounds for a tiny fraction of the cost. In terms of how much area it can cover vs supplies needed, that plane is going to be the least thirsty thing on the mountain, assuming you even need to climb it then.

ashdksnndck 29d ago

I thought human-carried railguns were relegated to sci-fi? The power requirements are so high, the only practical mobile railgun is on a ship.

chocrates 28d ago
You can buy some on the market now, technically they are coil guns I think. Problem is the muzzle velocity is pretty paltry right now. I think we are stuck behind the energy density of the power source