6 ms·

Corollary to your complaints: Another downside that I haven't seen on anyone's AI hatelist yet is that it crowds out all other discussion. What happened to eve

by bm3719 1mo ago

Corollary to your complaints: Another downside that I haven't seen on anyone's AI hatelist yet is that it crowds out all other discussion. What happened to everyone talking about languages, protocols, algorithms, architecture, etc.? We can't have those conversations anymore because we're not even sure they matter now. In fact, we probably suspect they don't, hence the not bothering. Also, anything we do write will just get immediately slurped into AI embeddings, anonymizing it and detaching it from its human source, at most nudging some corner of its vectorized slurry. Maybe someone will ask a question that our content influences, but if that user bothers to thank anyone, he'll thank Claude. Perhaps this is what it feels like to be fully commoditized, fully alienated from one's labor.

calvinmorrison 1mo ago
why write programming languages if LLMs are fast enough to talk plaintext everything to eachother with perfect memory
- throw03172019 1mo ago
  Perfect* memory *semi-perfect
- throw-the-towel 1mo ago
  Why go see Rome when you can google up some photos? Why climb Mt Everest? Why have your own sex when there's so much porn? The answer is going to be the same it's always been: because we fucking can.
  - margalabargala 1mo ago
    I take your point, but unlike everything you mentioned, programming languages have usually been written for others to use, with a handful of Intercal-like exceptions. Any fully new languages we get will be either doomed from the start, or the language equivalent of TempleOS. Or both.
    - throw-the-towel 1mo ago
      Well, that makes sense too. I don't believe evolution of programming languages is just going to halt here, but that's just like my opinion man.
    - preg_match 1mo ago
      I'm writing a new language and I know it's doomed. I expect exactly zero users beyond me in the age of AI. But I love languages, I love language design. So, I'm doing it because it's fun and rewarding. The joy I get from seeing my language written out and thinking "I came up with that, that's mine" can't be beaten. Anyway I have one blog post about it. I'm working on the implementation now, just takes a while. I'm close to having a parser (not semantic analysis) and I'll probably do a dev log.
  - piloto_ciego 1mo ago
    This is totally how I’m feeling right now. This stuff has empowered me to finish the BS I don’t want to do rapidly then do other cool stuff I want to do.
    - throw-the-towel 1mo ago
      This is true too! I have ADHD-like executive problems, and sometimes doing the boring but necessary stuff is so painful I abandon the project entirely. Now, though? I entrust it to the agent, and even if it's slop it's still done, and this actually gives me the impetus to start moving again.
      - piloto_ciego 29d ago
        I am not an ADHDer (though I often wonder if I'm on some spectrum or another), but this is one of the things I have found great success in. If I can yeet through most of the busy work associated with a project, and focus on the stuff that really matters?
        throw-the-towel 29d ago
        TBH, if you're wondering if you're on a spectrum but never bothered to check, my advice is to check. I was always distrusting of labels, then got diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder at the ripe old age of 31. And holy mother of Czestochowa, the story of my life suddenly made so much sense.
- ivan888 1mo ago
  At some point (soon), the massive inefficiency of this system will stop being subsidized. Also, it’s nondeterministic and unreliable.
- xboxnolifes 1mo ago
  Even if that were true: to save on inference costs.
add-sub-mul-div 1mo ago
To go along with that, it's also crowding out a whole generation's worth of labor and innovation. We're not curing cancer, we're churning out TPS reports faster and drowning in Show HN shovelware.
- AznHisoka 1mo ago
  To be fair, i dont think there is a huge overlap in the people who can cure cancer and the people vomiting out Show HN projects
  - Eddy_Viscosity2 1mo ago
    The overlap comes from the cancer-curing-capable people also drowning in AI slop and people using AI to flood the space with ideas on how to solve cancer and funders wanting to see people using AI because they think it will solve cancer, etc. It affects everybody.
  - williamsss 28d ago
    I’d wager if you filter out Show HN projects that have been maintained <2wks it would sift more gold to the top
- mmcnl 1mo ago
  Why are we not curing cancer? We should.
Nathanba 1mo ago
Yes I've noticed that too. It seems accomplishments in general have been devalued, it's not specific to languages, protocols, algorithms or architecture. If I have some idea at work, I feel like even that receives less recognition now because of AI. AI has ideas too, what does it matter? Sure, your idea could be good. But we are already drowning in ideas from AIs, everytime you prompt an AI it will tell you dozens of ideas on what you could improve. Who can say which one matters, does any of it really matter anymore? Why care about things that are effortless? That's the impression I get in regards to how people think now.
xtracto 1mo ago
We need to start talking about real Software Engineering concepts. The stuff we will write to guide agents to build our software. We will be building architectural blueprints for software "buildings" same as Civic Engineers and Architects do for bridges and towers.
- aryehof 1mo ago
  > We will be building architectural blueprints for software "buildings" same as Civic Engineers and Architects do for bridges and towers. If only we knew how. All we seem to know formally given popular discourse is languages, frameworks, tools, protocols and algorithms. Thinking about how to move beyond functional decomposition and structured design to enable those “blueprints” isn’t even on the agenda?
- rbtms 1mo ago
  I don't think it speaks well of Software Engineers the will to delegate the construction of blueprints to unreliable workers. Architects and Civil Engineers know that licensed, professional people that have experience and know-how will execute it in a nearly flawless way. Compared to that, agents might hallucinate, build something completely different to the intended project or leave subtle bugs behind that, in the case of complex systems, the humans in charge will probably not even notice.
  - Tanoc 29d ago
    A parallel to what you're describing would be the Hyatt Regency collapse. Meticulously designed, yet one small change under the surface lead to one of the worst engineering disasters of that century. I don't want to think of what the digital equivalent of the Hyatt Regency collapse would be, considering that the software could be deployed all around the globe rather than in one place in one building.
- benhurmarcel 1mo ago
  You underestimate the amount of detailed tedious work that is done in those fields. It’s far from being all about architectural blueprints.
paul7986 1mo ago
This Ask HN received 116 points and was on the front page. How come it vanished from the front page, the 2nd page and so forth here on HN? This is important topic to a huge portion of HN readers and to see how were feeling / thinking during these times of uncertainity.
- ramesh31 1mo ago
  Yeah it seems dang has some kind of nether region to vanish these types of discussions to. Shame, seemed to have really hit a deep nerve.
  - AznHisoka 1mo ago
    I think it might be because of the comment to like ratio or something. Hope I am wront, but its like someone doesnt want something generating lots of discussion… in a discussion forum
- trymas 1mo ago
  I mostly browse https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active for this reason.
preg_match 1mo ago
Languages is the biggest bummer to me. It's great the LLMs make languages less relevant, rewrite cheaper, etc. But I love languages and language design. It's sad to think that we're converging on the most common languages in training data, without considering the developer ergonomics and semantics. But, it's been happening for decades, LLMs just put it into maximum overdrive.

by bm3719 1mo ago

calvinmorrison 1mo ago

why write programming languages if LLMs are fast enough to talk plaintext everything to eachother with perfect memory

throw03172019 1mo ago
Perfect* memory *semi-perfect
throw-the-towel 1mo ago
Why go see Rome when you can google up some photos? Why climb Mt Everest? Why have your own sex when there's so much porn? The answer is going to be the same it's always been: because we fucking can.
- margalabargala 1mo ago
  I take your point, but unlike everything you mentioned, programming languages have usually been written for others to use, with a handful of Intercal-like exceptions. Any fully new languages we get will be either doomed from the start, or the language equivalent of TempleOS. Or both.
  - throw-the-towel 1mo ago
    Well, that makes sense too. I don't believe evolution of programming languages is just going to halt here, but that's just like my opinion man.
  - preg_match 1mo ago
    I'm writing a new language and I know it's doomed. I expect exactly zero users beyond me in the age of AI. But I love languages, I love language design. So, I'm doing it because it's fun and rewarding. The joy I get from seeing my language written out and thinking "I came up with that, that's mine" can't be beaten. Anyway I have one blog post about it. I'm working on the implementation now, just takes a while. I'm close to having a parser (not semantic analysis) and I'll probably do a dev log.
- piloto_ciego 1mo ago
  This is totally how I’m feeling right now. This stuff has empowered me to finish the BS I don’t want to do rapidly then do other cool stuff I want to do.
  - throw-the-towel 1mo ago
    This is true too! I have ADHD-like executive problems, and sometimes doing the boring but necessary stuff is so painful I abandon the project entirely. Now, though? I entrust it to the agent, and even if it's slop it's still done, and this actually gives me the impetus to start moving again.
    - piloto_ciego 29d ago
      I am not an ADHDer (though I often wonder if I'm on some spectrum or another), but this is one of the things I have found great success in. If I can yeet through most of the busy work associated with a project, and focus on the stuff that really matters?
      - throw-the-towel 29d ago
        TBH, if you're wondering if you're on a spectrum but never bothered to check, my advice is to check. I was always distrusting of labels, then got diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder at the ripe old age of 31. And holy mother of Czestochowa, the story of my life suddenly made so much sense.
ivan888 1mo ago
At some point (soon), the massive inefficiency of this system will stop being subsidized. Also, it’s nondeterministic and unreliable.
xboxnolifes 1mo ago
Even if that were true: to save on inference costs.

add-sub-mul-div 1mo ago

To go along with that, it's also crowding out a whole generation's worth of labor and innovation. We're not curing cancer, we're churning out TPS reports faster and drowning in Show HN shovelware.

AznHisoka 1mo ago
To be fair, i dont think there is a huge overlap in the people who can cure cancer and the people vomiting out Show HN projects
- Eddy_Viscosity2 1mo ago
  The overlap comes from the cancer-curing-capable people also drowning in AI slop and people using AI to flood the space with ideas on how to solve cancer and funders wanting to see people using AI because they think it will solve cancer, etc. It affects everybody.
- williamsss 28d ago
  I’d wager if you filter out Show HN projects that have been maintained <2wks it would sift more gold to the top
mmcnl 1mo ago
Why are we not curing cancer? We should.

Nathanba 1mo ago

Yes I've noticed that too. It seems accomplishments in general have been devalued, it's not specific to languages, protocols, algorithms or architecture. If I have some idea at work, I feel like even that receives less recognition now because of AI. AI has ideas too, what does it matter? Sure, your idea could be good. But we are already drowning in ideas from AIs, everytime you prompt an AI it will tell you dozens of ideas on what you could improve. Who can say which one matters, does any of it really matter anymore? Why care about things that are effortless? That's the impression I get in regards to how people think now.

xtracto 1mo ago

We need to start talking about real Software Engineering concepts. The stuff we will write to guide agents to build our software. We will be building architectural blueprints for software "buildings" same as Civic Engineers and Architects do for bridges and towers.

aryehof 1mo ago
> We will be building architectural blueprints for software "buildings" same as Civic Engineers and Architects do for bridges and towers. If only we knew how. All we seem to know formally given popular discourse is languages, frameworks, tools, protocols and algorithms. Thinking about how to move beyond functional decomposition and structured design to enable those “blueprints” isn’t even on the agenda?
rbtms 1mo ago
I don't think it speaks well of Software Engineers the will to delegate the construction of blueprints to unreliable workers. Architects and Civil Engineers know that licensed, professional people that have experience and know-how will execute it in a nearly flawless way. Compared to that, agents might hallucinate, build something completely different to the intended project or leave subtle bugs behind that, in the case of complex systems, the humans in charge will probably not even notice.
- Tanoc 29d ago
  A parallel to what you're describing would be the Hyatt Regency collapse. Meticulously designed, yet one small change under the surface lead to one of the worst engineering disasters of that century. I don't want to think of what the digital equivalent of the Hyatt Regency collapse would be, considering that the software could be deployed all around the globe rather than in one place in one building.
benhurmarcel 1mo ago
You underestimate the amount of detailed tedious work that is done in those fields. It’s far from being all about architectural blueprints.

paul7986 1mo ago

This Ask HN received 116 points and was on the front page. How come it vanished from the front page, the 2nd page and so forth here on HN? This is important topic to a huge portion of HN readers and to see how were feeling / thinking during these times of uncertainity.

ramesh31 1mo ago
Yeah it seems dang has some kind of nether region to vanish these types of discussions to. Shame, seemed to have really hit a deep nerve.
- AznHisoka 1mo ago
  I think it might be because of the comment to like ratio or something. Hope I am wront, but its like someone doesnt want something generating lots of discussion… in a discussion forum
trymas 1mo ago
I mostly browse https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active for this reason.

preg_match 1mo ago

Languages is the biggest bummer to me. It's great the LLMs make languages less relevant, rewrite cheaper, etc. But I love languages and language design. It's sad to think that we're converging on the most common languages in training data, without considering the developer ergonomics and semantics. But, it's been happening for decades, LLMs just put it into maximum overdrive.