18 ms·

>> so I can pay more attention to riding safely and effortlessly. If shifting gears takes to much of your attention, I'm concerned for all of us, and why do yo

by skeeter2020 1mo ago

>> so I can pay more attention to riding safely and effortlessly. If shifting gears takes to much of your attention, I'm concerned for all of us, and why do you need to pay more attention to riding "effortlessly"?

DonHopkins 1mo ago
Simple. There is this thing in psychology called "Cognitive Load". Automatic transmissions and continuous transmissions reduce it. That's why most people don't drive a stick shifted manual transmission car any more. It works the same for bikes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load Have you ever ridden a bike with a geared derailleur, and forgotten to shift into low gear at an intersection, or had to suddenly stop before you had a chance to shift into low gear, so it's more difficult getting started again? Did you notice how it's impossible to shift while you're stopped, and how tricky it is to get it from high back into low while you're starting, especially up hill, and how you can't shift while you're applying force, so you have to push yourself forward instead of pedaling to get it rolling enough to downshift while gently pedaling without accelerating? A continuous hub fixes those problems, and an automatic transmission shifts you into low when you stop (even if you're not moving), and smoothly and continuously shifts back up while you're accelerating, and the continuous hub allows you to apply power while it's shifting (note I didn't say "changing gears" -- it's continuous, and doesn't have gears. It has planets and fluid instead. It can shift while it's stopped, and accelerate while it's shifting. You have a lot more important things to worry about when you're accelerating from a stop at a busy intersection than pushing off and shifting without applying acceleration and only pedaling forcefully once you've finished shifting into low gear. If you're riding a bakfiets (cargo bike) with your kids and a dog in the box, then you definitely have things you need to worry about more than shifting gears, and because of the mass and precious cargo, it's even more important to be able to accelerate from a stop without performing a derailleur dance in the middle of a busy intersection. It's a trick you have to learn just like using the parking break when starting a manual transmission car facing up hill. Manual transmissions have a much higher cognitive load in both cars and bikes. This kind of stuff should be intuitive if you've ever ridden a bike with more than one gear, or driven a stick shift car. Sure it gives you "more control", but more control = higher cognative load, and you're probably not a NASCAR race car driver who needs to optimize for control. It's all explained here: https://enviolo.com/products/ https://enviolo.com/products/ The Enviolo stepless CVP technology explained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xY2S-9gjHI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xY2S-9gjHI Is enviolo the best internally geared hub for eBikes? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vob5Rb4IKsw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vob5Rb4IKsw He talks about shifting when you're stopped at 2:32.
- guenthert 1mo ago
  > Have you ever ridden a bike with a geared derailleur, and forgotten to shift into low gear at an intersection, or had to suddenly stop before you had a chance to shift into low gear, so it's more difficult getting started again? Yes, it's an annoyance, not an insurmountable obstacle. If one is bothered by it, there's the hub gear, invented more than 100 years ago.
- SR2Z 1mo ago
  If I stop in the wrong gear the most dangerous part is that I stopped, not that I'm in the wrong gear. If I'm moving the bike by directly motivating the drivetrain with my foot, all this talk about "more control" feels very silly because I am already directly exposed to whatever is happening on the chain and at the wheels. I don't ride an ebike but because my tires are skinny I can definitely slip out if I start too fast in a low gear. The "fix" for that isn't to pick a different gear or rely on some fancy shifter to try and increase my mechanical advantage, it's to feel the tires slipping at my feet and just... pedal slower. Ditto for going up hills. Is "the bike got hard to pedal" cognitive load or literal load? I get the argument for riding a cargo bike but IME cargo bikes are almost always ebikes now because derailleur or not, not many people are going to accelerate quickly with kids and dog. Considering that fancy non-deraileur gearboxes cost nearly as much as cheap ebike conversion kits it seems like an uphill battle.

DonHopkins 1mo ago

Simple. There is this thing in psychology called "Cognitive Load". Automatic transmissions and continuous transmissions reduce it. That's why most people don't drive a stick shifted manual transmission car any more. It works the same for bikes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_load Have you ever ridden a bike with a geared derailleur, and forgotten to shift into low gear at an intersection, or had to suddenly stop before you had a chance to shift into low gear, so it's more difficult getting started again? Did you notice how it's impossible to shift while you're stopped, and how tricky it is to get it from high back into low while you're starting, especially up hill, and how you can't shift while you're applying force, so you have to push yourself forward instead of pedaling to get it rolling enough to downshift while gently pedaling without accelerating? A continuous hub fixes those problems, and an automatic transmission shifts you into low when you stop (even if you're not moving), and smoothly and continuously shifts back up while you're accelerating, and the continuous hub allows you to apply power while it's shifting (note I didn't say "changing gears" -- it's continuous, and doesn't have gears. It has planets and fluid instead. It can shift while it's stopped, and accelerate while it's shifting. You have a lot more important things to worry about when you're accelerating from a stop at a busy intersection than pushing off and shifting without applying acceleration and only pedaling forcefully once you've finished shifting into low gear. If you're riding a bakfiets (cargo bike) with your kids and a dog in the box, then you definitely have things you need to worry about more than shifting gears, and because of the mass and precious cargo, it's even more important to be able to accelerate from a stop without performing a derailleur dance in the middle of a busy intersection. It's a trick you have to learn just like using the parking break when starting a manual transmission car facing up hill. Manual transmissions have a much higher cognitive load in both cars and bikes. This kind of stuff should be intuitive if you've ever ridden a bike with more than one gear, or driven a stick shift car. Sure it gives you "more control", but more control = higher cognative load, and you're probably not a NASCAR race car driver who needs to optimize for control. It's all explained here: https://enviolo.com/products/ https://enviolo.com/products/ The Enviolo stepless CVP technology explained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xY2S-9gjHI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xY2S-9gjHI Is enviolo the best internally geared hub for eBikes? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vob5Rb4IKsw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vob5Rb4IKsw He talks about shifting when you're stopped at 2:32.

guenthert 1mo ago
> Have you ever ridden a bike with a geared derailleur, and forgotten to shift into low gear at an intersection, or had to suddenly stop before you had a chance to shift into low gear, so it's more difficult getting started again? Yes, it's an annoyance, not an insurmountable obstacle. If one is bothered by it, there's the hub gear, invented more than 100 years ago.
SR2Z 1mo ago
If I stop in the wrong gear the most dangerous part is that I stopped, not that I'm in the wrong gear. If I'm moving the bike by directly motivating the drivetrain with my foot, all this talk about "more control" feels very silly because I am already directly exposed to whatever is happening on the chain and at the wheels. I don't ride an ebike but because my tires are skinny I can definitely slip out if I start too fast in a low gear. The "fix" for that isn't to pick a different gear or rely on some fancy shifter to try and increase my mechanical advantage, it's to feel the tires slipping at my feet and just... pedal slower. Ditto for going up hills. Is "the bike got hard to pedal" cognitive load or literal load? I get the argument for riding a cargo bike but IME cargo bikes are almost always ebikes now because derailleur or not, not many people are going to accelerate quickly with kids and dog. Considering that fancy non-deraileur gearboxes cost nearly as much as cheap ebike conversion kits it seems like an uphill battle.