6 ms·

Same in Greece, the countryside and even the islands are dying or declining. Everyone is moving to Athens or nearby big cities. Even most greek islands have bec

Same in Greece, the countryside and even the islands are dying or declining. Everyone is moving to Athens or nearby big cities. Even most greek islands have become huge only-summer resorts and a large airbnb, most of their villages are almost empty during the winter. There are various reasons but the most important ones are that a big majority of properties has been bought by foreigners as vacation homes and there is no incentive for locals or other greeks to go there and create businesses for noone mid-winter without schools, doctors, etc. Add to that younger generations don't want to stay and work as farmers, bakers, builders despite the fact that in most of these professions are in real need and can make great money there. People prefer the easy money from airbnb and property selling to foreigners.

sixtyj 1mo ago
It is sad what you mention. The commoditisation, clustering and gentrification of landscape and living is world-wide phenomenon. At Corsica FLNC fought with bombing against hijacking of landscape by vacationers. But xenophobia solves nothing. Revolution? Slow collapse? Some way out of the cities and back to the countryside? Idk. Time will tell.
- higeorge13 1mo ago
  It's not about xenophobia, more like fear that the greek landscape we know won't be like this in the future. But greeks are not xenophobic, i would say the opposite. They seem to just enjoy the free money from selling their properties to anyone but don't care about what's left. Islands are getting over-built, Mykonos has become like a tiny Dubai, most popular greek beaches (e.g. Sarakiniko in Milos) are getting constructed with luxury hotels with pools, etc destroying the natural landscape, island villages are getting bought by foreigners who visit Greece for 10 days every 2 or 3 years. What's left behind? Who will work as a regular plumber or baker there? Who will preserve the iconic greek island architecture in future buildings there? The non existent and corrupt construction laws or the foreigners who might not care enough for one of their remote properties (probably just used for extra income via airbnb)?
d3vnull 1mo ago
This tendency started long before airbnb and foreigners started buying a "big majority of properties". People have been moving to cities for decades now. Many of humanities recent developments make much more sense at scale so people are going to places with that scale. Some prefer a quieter environment and don't move but most people rather have opportunities, jobs, services, etc and all that is made much easier when lots of people are concentrated in a smaller area.
- higeorge13 1mo ago
  That's true, but at least all these places were kept unharmed and less touristic before airbnb. Each island's tourism was almost limited around hotels and established rental houses before. Airbnb opened up the gates for that extra income for anyone having more than 1 property, these side businesses, building, renovating, managing, cleaning, selling around airbnb. And if you are a rich foreigner, you can buy properties everywhere in the world and keep making money from that local tourism.
  - vladvasiliu 1mo ago
    Were they actually "kept unharmed"? If many people are moving out, services start to wither, too. Which pushes even more people to move out. Sure, bringing in tons of tourists where there were initially none is going to change a place. But isn't it a way to keep it alive, even if different? I think the situation is different from places where people actually want to live but are pushed out "by the rich" (tourists or second-home owners).
    - higeorge13 1mo ago
      I think we haven't really seen the effects of tourism to places. - Before airbnb there was some balance in these places: people had regular professions (plumbers, builders, bakers, farmers, agriculture, fishing, hoteliers, etc) - After airbnb: local people saw that opportunity for extra income on the side, also thriving side businesses around tourirm. There is also the existing generation of people still doing these regular professions - Now: local people might have sold their properties to companies managing these airbnbs or foreigners visiting once per couple years. Local people have also enough money to live comfortably somewhere else, number of regular professions is declining or replaced by non-local people, e.g. from India or Pakistan (this is the case for all balkan countries). For reference, a couple years ago, this was done by people from Albania or Romania. - In 20 years: these islands are not inhabited by greek people, only companies maintain these airbnbs or whole villages are left empty. No bakeries are left, no local markets, only large supermarket chains bringing non local food and groceries, noone likes to work as a plumber or baker since they can make money from other stuff. This is how i see the future in these places. I am not talking about the popular ones like Mykonos or Santorini, these are high-income generators and won't have an issue finding "workers". However this is the current state in other non popular islands.
72deluxe 1mo ago
That's very sad. Is there any governmental interest in some form of monetary incentive to maintain a particular trade in an area? I seem to recall some Italian towns/villages offering reduced priced housing for those that stay in the area and run businesses locally for a set number of years. As a foreigner, I very much enjoy holidaying in your beautiful islands but do not wish to destroy their charm with my attendance. You have some beautiful waters.
lakis 1mo ago
I feel this view is very localized and short term . Yes, Airbnb has an effect (potential big) on some of the people moving to cities. BUT the Airbnb effect maybe be big in some areas but definitely insignificant in other areas. My village in Peloponnese has absolutely NO Airbnb . Almost everybody have moved to the cities. There are 6 people that live in the village the whole time. I believe all of them are above 60.
watwut 1mo ago
Farmers and bakers can make good money? Around here, the salaries of those are on the low side.

sixtyj 1mo ago

It is sad what you mention. The commoditisation, clustering and gentrification of landscape and living is world-wide phenomenon. At Corsica FLNC fought with bombing against hijacking of landscape by vacationers. But xenophobia solves nothing. Revolution? Slow collapse? Some way out of the cities and back to the countryside? Idk. Time will tell.

higeorge13 1mo ago
It's not about xenophobia, more like fear that the greek landscape we know won't be like this in the future. But greeks are not xenophobic, i would say the opposite. They seem to just enjoy the free money from selling their properties to anyone but don't care about what's left. Islands are getting over-built, Mykonos has become like a tiny Dubai, most popular greek beaches (e.g. Sarakiniko in Milos) are getting constructed with luxury hotels with pools, etc destroying the natural landscape, island villages are getting bought by foreigners who visit Greece for 10 days every 2 or 3 years. What's left behind? Who will work as a regular plumber or baker there? Who will preserve the iconic greek island architecture in future buildings there? The non existent and corrupt construction laws or the foreigners who might not care enough for one of their remote properties (probably just used for extra income via airbnb)?

d3vnull 1mo ago

This tendency started long before airbnb and foreigners started buying a "big majority of properties". People have been moving to cities for decades now. Many of humanities recent developments make much more sense at scale so people are going to places with that scale. Some prefer a quieter environment and don't move but most people rather have opportunities, jobs, services, etc and all that is made much easier when lots of people are concentrated in a smaller area.

higeorge13 1mo ago
That's true, but at least all these places were kept unharmed and less touristic before airbnb. Each island's tourism was almost limited around hotels and established rental houses before. Airbnb opened up the gates for that extra income for anyone having more than 1 property, these side businesses, building, renovating, managing, cleaning, selling around airbnb. And if you are a rich foreigner, you can buy properties everywhere in the world and keep making money from that local tourism.
- vladvasiliu 1mo ago
  Were they actually "kept unharmed"? If many people are moving out, services start to wither, too. Which pushes even more people to move out. Sure, bringing in tons of tourists where there were initially none is going to change a place. But isn't it a way to keep it alive, even if different? I think the situation is different from places where people actually want to live but are pushed out "by the rich" (tourists or second-home owners).
  - higeorge13 1mo ago
    I think we haven't really seen the effects of tourism to places. - Before airbnb there was some balance in these places: people had regular professions (plumbers, builders, bakers, farmers, agriculture, fishing, hoteliers, etc) - After airbnb: local people saw that opportunity for extra income on the side, also thriving side businesses around tourirm. There is also the existing generation of people still doing these regular professions - Now: local people might have sold their properties to companies managing these airbnbs or foreigners visiting once per couple years. Local people have also enough money to live comfortably somewhere else, number of regular professions is declining or replaced by non-local people, e.g. from India or Pakistan (this is the case for all balkan countries). For reference, a couple years ago, this was done by people from Albania or Romania. - In 20 years: these islands are not inhabited by greek people, only companies maintain these airbnbs or whole villages are left empty. No bakeries are left, no local markets, only large supermarket chains bringing non local food and groceries, noone likes to work as a plumber or baker since they can make money from other stuff. This is how i see the future in these places. I am not talking about the popular ones like Mykonos or Santorini, these are high-income generators and won't have an issue finding "workers". However this is the current state in other non popular islands.

72deluxe 1mo ago

That's very sad. Is there any governmental interest in some form of monetary incentive to maintain a particular trade in an area? I seem to recall some Italian towns/villages offering reduced priced housing for those that stay in the area and run businesses locally for a set number of years. As a foreigner, I very much enjoy holidaying in your beautiful islands but do not wish to destroy their charm with my attendance. You have some beautiful waters.

lakis 1mo ago

I feel this view is very localized and short term . Yes, Airbnb has an effect (potential big) on some of the people moving to cities. BUT the Airbnb effect maybe be big in some areas but definitely insignificant in other areas. My village in Peloponnese has absolutely NO Airbnb . Almost everybody have moved to the cities. There are 6 people that live in the village the whole time. I believe all of them are above 60.

watwut 1mo ago

Farmers and bakers can make good money? Around here, the salaries of those are on the low side.