11 ms·

Ray Kurzweil joins Google

312 points by dumitrue 14y ago

nonsequ 14y ago
Can anyone shed some light on what 'Director of Engineering' might mean at Google? It sounds rather unassuming for a person of his stature.
- mvgoogler 14y ago
  Director is generally the management level just below VP. I don't know the specifics of this situation though, so take it with a grain of salt. reply
- mememememememe 14y ago
  I think there is a Director of Engineering at every Google office (or even multiple, like each for a group of product)? Otherwise he would be listed as "Senior Vice President, Engineering". Minimally, he's going to be the manager of the managers of some related teams.
- ChuckMcM 14y ago
  For a long time it was the highest grade you could be hired in as since Google didn't feel like the title "Vice President" in Google meant the same thing as other places. I know VP's they gave offers to, who turned down the offer on the basis of having to take the title of director. At one time you had a limited amount of time post hire to 'prove yourself' or be managed out of the organization. I found the hire curious from the standpoint that Kurzweil's tendency to handwave rather than retreat to data has historically been a red flag in the hiring process at Google. This tended to unfairly penalize theorists over experimentalists at Google. One wonders if they've changed. I remember him giving a tech talk and talking about how many computers you'd need to simulate a brain and how nobody would put that together for years yet, and chuckling knowingly :-).
  - ilaksh 14y ago
    His tendency to handwave rather than retreat to data? What the heck are you talking about? Have you seen how many graphs he puts in his presentations? You think he's a theorist rather than an experimentalist? How can you possibly get that idea with all of his game-changing inventions?
    - ChuckMcM 14y ago
      So he gave a tech-talk at Google, around 2008, and yes he had lots of graphs and such but during the Q&A session he kept retreating into generalized ideas rather than data. I recall the question about how he came up with his numbers for machines to hold a consciousness as one such exchange. The impression I certainly got was that his approach is to theorize about something, then design experiments to test out his theory. As opposed to running a bunch of experiments and then figuring out a theory that would explain the collected data. That said, I've got mad respect for his work and have enjoyed his talks and writings. Your comment though suggests you think 'theorist' is a negative in some connotation? Why is that?
      - philh 14y ago
        > The impression I certainly got was that his approach is to theorize about something, then design experiments to test out his theory. As opposed to running a bunch of experiments and then figuring out a theory that would explain the collected data. There's nothing wrong with this, as you've written it. (There might be a problem with his implementation.) All else being equal, I trust a theory which has made ten accurate predictions over a theory which merely explains ten previous observations.
        shawn-butler 14y ago
        You would be making a mistake unless the predictions had a high degree of "unexpectedness" or the ten prior observations lacked coherence.
        14y ago
- nazgulnarsil 14y ago
  Signaling is important in the maintenance and direction of culture. Whoever made this decision is making a statement about what sorts of projects they want google to work on in the future.
scarmig 14y ago
I wonder if his political/visionary/famous aspects played a positive, negative, or neutral role in the hire.
zephjc 14y ago
Google continues its move towards the ad-driven singularity.
- alperakgun 14y ago
  google is hedging itself against singularity. When the day comes. Google valuation will jump exponentially within a matter of minutes.
  - saalweachter 14y ago
    And here I thought the Singularity referred to Apple's stock price.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
dhughes 14y ago
I think he's eying their massive server farm as a spot to park his brain. He just called shotgun for the Singularity.
- cheeseprocedure 14y ago
  I wonder if we'll be able to submit pull requests.
ilaksh 14y ago
I wonder if this will be a wake up call for some of the people who think his predictions of super-human AI are a joke. I mean even if you don't believe in the Singularity, you must believe in Google, right?
- Devilboy 14y ago
  2029: Although computers routinely pass the Turing Test, controversy still persists over whether machines are as intelligent as humans in all areas. -- The Age of Spiritual Machines (1999)
- vertr 14y ago
  >even if you don't believe in the Singularity This makes "the singularity" sound very much like a religion.
  - kanzure 14y ago
    > This makes "the singularity" sound very much like a religion. I think what most people mean is, "even if you don't believe that anything other than squishy brains can ever recursively do what the brain does".
    - jmmcd 14y ago
      It's better to distinguish the singularity (semi-infinite rapid change caused by recursively self-improving AI) from AI.
      - jere 14y ago
        Thanks! This conflation keeps getting made in every thread on the singularity and they're not at all the same thing.
      - randallsquared 14y ago
        The singularity (as conceived pre-Kurzweil) is the horizon beyond which we can't make any reasonable predictions about the future. Recursively self-improving AI is merely one potential path to that. But GP is right that the meme that the singularity is ridiculous tends to go along with the meme that intelligence is ineffable and can't be reduced to an algorithm in a computer.
GuiA 14y ago
Saw him give a talk promoting his latest book last month, was heavily disappointed. Ideas are presented in a way to fit nicely together, but ultimately lack any depth or critical insights. I recall someone calling it "creationism for people with an IQ over 140"; it's a fair description. It's a shame, he's brought many great contributions to our field, but I fear he has jumped the shark a while ago. Maybe going to Google will force him to work on solutions to problems of which the correctness can be more easily assessed.
- praxeologist 14y ago
  >It's a shame, he's brought many great contributions to our field What field? The fluffsters? Saying stuff like, "Ideas are presented in a way to fit nicely together, but ultimately lack any depth or critical insights.", is saying nothing.
  - GuiA 14y ago
    He did a lot of work in text to speech, speech recognition, OCR, etc. back in the day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kurzweil#Mid-life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kurzweil#Mid-life
    - praxeologist 14y ago
      Of course, fluffster was directed at you and I know what Kurzweil did.
      - pretoriusB 14y ago
        No, of course you've been pwned, and you should be more graceful about it.
- vecinu 14y ago
  I tend to feel the same way about him and the state of his life at the moment. I am very grateful for the inventions he brought forth and his work on AI but I think his current goals in life are unreasonable and of course, related to the death of his father. As much as he doesn't want to be human anymore, his entire goal in life relies on the human condition...to reconnect with his father and transgress life in its current form. I think he could do so much more at the moment if, like you said, he would focus on problems that can be solved as soon as possible and demonstrate a use of his solution.
6ren 14y ago
It's as if you took a lot of very good food and some dog excrement and blended it all up so that you can't possibly figure out what's good or bad. http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/douglas-r-hofstadter http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/douglas-r-hof... I see what DRF means, and The Singularity is Near did seem mostly a perfunctory literature review, with important issues not discussed, just skimmed over. (For example, he doesn't discussed the causes of accelerating returns, doesn't support the causes with data, only the effects. Another example: is it necessarily true that we are intelligent enough to understand ourselves? We're effective when we can something decompose hierarchically into simpler concepts... but what if there isn't such a decomposition of intelligence? i.e. the simplest decomposition is too complex for us to grasp. Hofstadner asks if a giraffe is intelligent enough to understand itself.) But I thought he supported his basic thesis, that progress is accelerating, compellingly. Really did a great job (seems to be the result of ongoing criticism, and him finding ways to refute it).
- rpm4321 14y ago
  DRH?
  - eksabajt 14y ago
    Douglas Richard Hofstadter
    - rpm4321 14y ago
      I know. He has DRF, so I was just letting him know about a confusing typo.
- backprojection 14y ago
  >For example, he doesn't discussed the causes of accelerating returns, doesn't support the causes with data, only the effects. I agree with this. It seems to be a huge hole in the entire discussion. It's not enough to cite historical data, and assert that exponential growth will continue indefinitely. I could speculate a bit about some explanations. But I'm curious if there are any good discussions out there, does anyone have some recommendations?
waterlesscloud 14y ago
It's seemed pretty clear to me for some time that Google's real mission is AI/singularity oriented and everything else is just a step along that road. It may not be what the day-to-day view is in the trenches, but it seems like the high level plan. A hire like this one certainly reinforces that perception. I don't know if it's truly possible to accomplish, but it's fascinating to see a major company taking steps in that directions.
- nostrademons 14y ago
  "Organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful." If you take that to the limit, the logical consequence is some sort of planet-wise consciousness that can instantly pull up any of humanity's collective knowledge at a moment's notice.
  - Raphael 14y ago
    Doesn't it already do that?
    - nostrademons 14y ago
      Google employees tend to be harsher on our current achievements than the general public. :-)
    - swah 14y ago
      Thinking about it, I dont think so. Because if you ask google and also ask a folk that is an expert on something or loves the subject, the person will give you much better information and links.
- xianshou 14y ago
  Google: maximizing the sum of consciousness.
- dbyrd 14y ago
  Google has thousands of employees who all have a moderate amount of autonomy. I don't think they have a singular goal. They just do a bunch of stuff around organizing the world's data. Naturally AI/singularity oriented projects tend to emerge.
michaelochurch 14y ago
I wonder how the blind allocation process will treat him. His domain expertise is AI, but he didn't do any of that At Google, which means it doesn't exist. So is he going to have to spend 18 months maintaining a legacy ad-targeting product while the 26-year-old Staff SWE next to him works on its replacement? How is he going to handle that?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- dumitrue 14y ago
  Why would you ever think that he is being blindly allocated to the position of Director of Engineering? In that position, he'll pretty much be in control of his own destiny at Google.
  - michaelochurch 14y ago
    When I was there, Directors were still above the Real Googler Line, but it may have moved up in the time since then. Also, he lives in Massachusetts, which means he'll only get the work that MTV doesn't want (unless he moves). Finally, with his visibility, he's going to get a lot of prank Perf and his manager is going to have a hard time promoting him because of that.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - Simucal 14y ago
      prank Perf?
      - michaelochurch 14y ago
        Anyone can write unsolicited reviews for anyone, with an option of it being visible only to the manager (aka graffiti in the executive washroom). If someone gets pissed off about his transhumanism (especially if he starts talking about the Singularity on eng-misc, or if he has questions related to assigning Real Names to AIs, or if someone just doesn't like Canada and won't forgive him for his work with Our Lady Peace in 2000-1) and decides to "Perf" him, he could be in trouble. If someone like Ray Kurzweil ends up on a PIP I will call the fabric of the universe broken.
jonmc12 14y ago
Given Kurzweil's age and stated goals, I'm thinking there is no way he is going to Google unless they are investing in life extension / prevention of death. Read between the lines - "next decade’s ‘unrealistic’ visions" - is likely nothing less than brain computer interfaces with the end goal of extending life by storing the entire human mind on a machine. Certainly not far off from Kurweil's timelines on Law of Accelerating Returns. I can understand why the PR does not say this, but it seems clear this is where Kurzweil would want to invest his time.
- rdl 14y ago
  Heh, Google Life Extension, so you can live longer and thus view more ads in your lifetime.
cs702 14y ago
Thanks in part to the popularity of his books, movie, and speeches, Kurzweil now knows pretty much every AI researcher in the planet, and we can safely assume he's aware of even very obscure research projects in the field, both inside and outside academia. Joining Google gives him ready access to data sets of almost unimaginable size, as well as unparalleled infrastructure and skills for handling such large data sets, putting him in an ideal position to connect researchers in academic and corporate settings with the data, infrastructure, and data management skills they need to make their visions a reality. According to the MIT Technology Review[1], he will be working with Peter Norvig, who is not just Google's Director of Research, but a well-known figure in AI. -- [1] http://www.technologyreview.com/view/508896/what-google-sees-in-new-hire-futurist-ray-kurzweil/ http://www.technologyreview.com/view/508896/what-google-sees...
- cschmidt 14y ago
  I just can't see Kurzweil being in the same league as Peter Norvig. Sure, he did some interesting work a long time ago, before he got weird. I can't see this working out well for Google, unless they just want a famous figurehead.
  - kanzure 14y ago
    > Sure, he did some interesting work a long time ago, before he got weird. You know, it would be wonderful if Ray Kurzweil actually works on software/hardware projects, and he's just hush-hush because he doesn't want to release experiments. Maybe he does more than writing books and speaking at conferences, and he secretly provisions ec2 clusters to experiment with Hadoop or whatever. Maybe he's not just some old geezer that pops lots of pills, maybe he's an old geezer that pops pills and writes Go. At least, that's what I tell myself to not be as angry about his "prediction from a distance" branding. On a somewhat related note, http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ has some old emails someone sent to Ray, exploring his lack of involvement in the open source transhumanist hardware/software community.
  - rpm4321 14y ago
    I'm reposting this comment I made a couple of months ago. He's no John McCarthy, but he was a true pioneer in the commercial applications of AI: ================================== I don't think that's a very fair assessment of Kurzweil's role in technology. He was on the ground, getting his hands dirty with the first commercial applications of AI. He made quite a bit of money selling his various companies and technologies, and was awarded the presidential Medal of Technology from Clinton. As I was growing up, there was a series of "Oh wow!" moments I had, associated with computers and the seemingly sci-fi things they were now capable of. "Oh wow, computers can read printed documents and recognize the characters!" "Oh wow, computers can read written text aloud!" "Oh wow, computers can recognize speech!" "Oh wow, computer synthesizers can sound just like pianos now!" I didn't realize until much later that Kurzweil was heavily involved with all of those breakthroughs.
brandall10 14y ago
I'm somewhat surprised there are comments debating what use he could be to Google or what interest they might have in him - Google is one of the primary backers of Singularity University. They already have a working relationship. Now he's an employee. Don't get how this could be a stretch. Singularity U as far as I understand is not really there so people can more quickly get to the point of uploading their brain to the cloud or anything - it's essentially for business strategists who want to have a better grasp of where things will be in 5-10+ years out. If the Goog believes strongly in the Kurz's ability to do this then it seems like a pretty nice score for the Goog.
- kanzure 14y ago
  > They already have a working relationship. Now he's an employee. Don't get how this could be a stretch. Maybe because of his role at Google, "Director of Engineering". That's not a good description of what Singularity University offers their customers. They do maybe one or two field trips to BioCurious and call it quits. Also, why is Singularity University managing TedxAustin? That was a bizarre email to see.
  - brandall10 14y ago
    Really? Their stated goal is: "assemble, educate and inspire a cadre of leaders who strive to understand and facilitate the development of exponentially advancing technologies and apply, focus and guide these tools to address humanity’s grand challenges." Why would this not in alignment w/ Google's aim for such a position? Why would they not want a strategist they believe who could direct their engineering staff in this manner? The people who attend the university are CEOs, CTOs... Directors of Engineering, etc. It's not for fringe kooks to congregate in celebration of the upcoming nerd rapture. Not at $25k/10 weeks it ain't. I get that he's a polarizing figure. But there are some very powerful people in this world who believes the man can walk on water.
    - kanzure 14y ago
      > Why would this not in alignment w/ Google's aim for such a position? Singularity University helps you meet people who can help you facilitate engineering feats, in the sense that more money helps you facilitate engineering feats. That's okay in my book. But, you're not going to end up with a working knowledge of mechanical engineering or computational neuroscience by hanging out at the Singularity University lectures. People are surprised about at how far "Director of Engineering" can skew in that direction, they aren't surprised that Google is interested in the future.
nealabq 14y ago
What's Kurzweil's motive? He's a visionary who can deliver a finished product. I think he must have some pretty specific ideas, and he wants to partner with Google. A few guesses: - New interfaces to replace keyboard/mouse/touch. Voice, gesture, face, brainwaves. Sign language with humming, blinking, and pupil pointing. Works with tablets, TVs, wearables, cars, buildings, ATMs, etc. - SuperPets (r) that can pass the Turing test. And do the shopping. - Surgically implanted Bluetooth. (It could literally be a tooth!) - Hover skateboards. - The Matrix. (Or the 13th Floor, which was a better movie in my not-so humble opinion.) I don't think it'll have to do with life-extension though. That's just too crazy far out-there.
- kanzure 14y ago
  > - New interfaces to replace keyboard/mouse/touch. Voice, gesture, face, brainwaves. Unfortunately, it turns out you can only get a limited number of bits out by looking at brainwaves (EEG). Gesture is much higher bandwidth, and keyboards seem to be the highest.
  - nealabq 14y ago
    But American Sign Language is gestures, and it seems higher bandwidth than spoken English. Just an informal uninformed observation, I don't know ASL. And I can't type as fast as I can talk. So I'm thinking gesticulating > speaking > typing.
    - kanzure 14y ago
      > And I can't type as fast as I can talk. Some of us can. http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanz... Well, almost. Mobile interfaces certainly aren't helping. I am not sure how much I would like a vocal way of typing out code, but I suspect I wouldn't.
  - bquarant 14y ago
    Saving this post to laugh at later.
  - 14y ago
SparrowOS 14y ago
Nigger-retard-doctors. God says... 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. 10:2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. 10:3 Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace. 10:4 And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said unto them, Come near, carry your brethren from before the sanctuary out of the camp.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
joey_muller 14y ago
Wow, Google's stock should rise on this news. Many folks may not know Kurzweil keyboards (for music), but they are excellent. I can't wait to see where he leads us next.
pbw 14y ago
Seems sad, I'd like to see Kurzweil form another startup and get bought by Google, rather than go work for them. I assume he could self-fund something, I don't how his hedge funds are doing. But maybe he's been there and done that, and wants mucho resources from day one. Maybe the AI space has grown up and it's hard to start up companies now, you need the resources and big data sets to do anything significant? Or he's just after the free lunches.
- queensnake 14y ago
  Maybe Google has a monopoly on all the smartest people anymore, or, is just one-stop shopping for support for the biggest ideas. Ray's worth 27 million and as you said has many of his own companies, he doesn't need a salary.
dinkumthinkum 14y ago
The problem is, and I don't want to be mean about it, is that Kurzweil is a crackpot and charlatan. This is not to take away from his intelligence or his technical achievements, which are indisputable. However, even Nobel prize winners can be outright crackpots and crazies (Nobel disease). I don't know exactly what Google's motives are here, I suspect it's something less than actually bringing about some of his, let's say, loftier ideas.
- Lost_BiomedE 14y ago
  If I were Google, I would hire him just to mumble into a recorder all day. Then have a small team decipher and escalate possible ideas.
nnq 14y ago
gotta love this guy: > 1%... you're pretty much finished... try that with product submission schedules [1] ...so now we know who to blame for future Google product delays. [1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihTWh5i2C4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihTWh5i2C4 EDIT: added the source link
TommyDANGerous 14y ago
Google will build Skynet, and Skynet will take us over.
samskiter 14y ago
I think this is the real let down prediction: In 2008, Ray Kurzweil said in an expert panel in the National Academy of Engineering that solar power will scale up to produce all the energy needs of Earth's people in 20 years. lololololol

312 points by dumitrue 14y ago

Can anyone shed some light on what 'Director of Engineering' might mean at Google? It sounds rather unassuming for a person of his stature.

mvgoogler 14y ago
Director is generally the management level just below VP. I don't know the specifics of this situation though, so take it with a grain of salt. reply
mememememememe 14y ago
I think there is a Director of Engineering at every Google office (or even multiple, like each for a group of product)? Otherwise he would be listed as "Senior Vice President, Engineering". Minimally, he's going to be the manager of the managers of some related teams.
ChuckMcM 14y ago
For a long time it was the highest grade you could be hired in as since Google didn't feel like the title "Vice President" in Google meant the same thing as other places. I know VP's they gave offers to, who turned down the offer on the basis of having to take the title of director. At one time you had a limited amount of time post hire to 'prove yourself' or be managed out of the organization. I found the hire curious from the standpoint that Kurzweil's tendency to handwave rather than retreat to data has historically been a red flag in the hiring process at Google. This tended to unfairly penalize theorists over experimentalists at Google. One wonders if they've changed. I remember him giving a tech talk and talking about how many computers you'd need to simulate a brain and how nobody would put that together for years yet, and chuckling knowingly :-).
- ilaksh 14y ago
  His tendency to handwave rather than retreat to data? What the heck are you talking about? Have you seen how many graphs he puts in his presentations? You think he's a theorist rather than an experimentalist? How can you possibly get that idea with all of his game-changing inventions?
  - ChuckMcM 14y ago
    So he gave a tech-talk at Google, around 2008, and yes he had lots of graphs and such but during the Q&A session he kept retreating into generalized ideas rather than data. I recall the question about how he came up with his numbers for machines to hold a consciousness as one such exchange. The impression I certainly got was that his approach is to theorize about something, then design experiments to test out his theory. As opposed to running a bunch of experiments and then figuring out a theory that would explain the collected data. That said, I've got mad respect for his work and have enjoyed his talks and writings. Your comment though suggests you think 'theorist' is a negative in some connotation? Why is that?
    - philh 14y ago
      > The impression I certainly got was that his approach is to theorize about something, then design experiments to test out his theory. As opposed to running a bunch of experiments and then figuring out a theory that would explain the collected data. There's nothing wrong with this, as you've written it. (There might be a problem with his implementation.) All else being equal, I trust a theory which has made ten accurate predictions over a theory which merely explains ten previous observations.
      - shawn-butler 14y ago
        You would be making a mistake unless the predictions had a high degree of "unexpectedness" or the ten prior observations lacked coherence.
        14y ago
nazgulnarsil 14y ago
Signaling is important in the maintenance and direction of culture. Whoever made this decision is making a statement about what sorts of projects they want google to work on in the future.

scarmig 14y ago

I wonder if his political/visionary/famous aspects played a positive, negative, or neutral role in the hire.

zephjc 14y ago

Google continues its move towards the ad-driven singularity.

alperakgun 14y ago
google is hedging itself against singularity. When the day comes. Google valuation will jump exponentially within a matter of minutes.
- saalweachter 14y ago
  And here I thought the Singularity referred to Apple's stock price.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

dhughes 14y ago

I think he's eying their massive server farm as a spot to park his brain. He just called shotgun for the Singularity.

cheeseprocedure 14y ago
I wonder if we'll be able to submit pull requests.

ilaksh 14y ago

I wonder if this will be a wake up call for some of the people who think his predictions of super-human AI are a joke. I mean even if you don't believe in the Singularity, you must believe in Google, right?

Devilboy 14y ago
2029: Although computers routinely pass the Turing Test, controversy still persists over whether machines are as intelligent as humans in all areas. -- The Age of Spiritual Machines (1999)
vertr 14y ago
>even if you don't believe in the Singularity This makes "the singularity" sound very much like a religion.
- kanzure 14y ago
  > This makes "the singularity" sound very much like a religion. I think what most people mean is, "even if you don't believe that anything other than squishy brains can ever recursively do what the brain does".
  - jmmcd 14y ago
    It's better to distinguish the singularity (semi-infinite rapid change caused by recursively self-improving AI) from AI.
    - jere 14y ago
      Thanks! This conflation keeps getting made in every thread on the singularity and they're not at all the same thing.
    - randallsquared 14y ago
      The singularity (as conceived pre-Kurzweil) is the horizon beyond which we can't make any reasonable predictions about the future. Recursively self-improving AI is merely one potential path to that. But GP is right that the meme that the singularity is ridiculous tends to go along with the meme that intelligence is ineffable and can't be reduced to an algorithm in a computer.

GuiA 14y ago

Saw him give a talk promoting his latest book last month, was heavily disappointed. Ideas are presented in a way to fit nicely together, but ultimately lack any depth or critical insights. I recall someone calling it "creationism for people with an IQ over 140"; it's a fair description. It's a shame, he's brought many great contributions to our field, but I fear he has jumped the shark a while ago. Maybe going to Google will force him to work on solutions to problems of which the correctness can be more easily assessed.

praxeologist 14y ago
>It's a shame, he's brought many great contributions to our field What field? The fluffsters? Saying stuff like, "Ideas are presented in a way to fit nicely together, but ultimately lack any depth or critical insights.", is saying nothing.
- GuiA 14y ago
  He did a lot of work in text to speech, speech recognition, OCR, etc. back in the day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kurzweil#Mid-life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Kurzweil#Mid-life
  - praxeologist 14y ago
    Of course, fluffster was directed at you and I know what Kurzweil did.
    - pretoriusB 14y ago
      No, of course you've been pwned, and you should be more graceful about it.
vecinu 14y ago
I tend to feel the same way about him and the state of his life at the moment. I am very grateful for the inventions he brought forth and his work on AI but I think his current goals in life are unreasonable and of course, related to the death of his father. As much as he doesn't want to be human anymore, his entire goal in life relies on the human condition...to reconnect with his father and transgress life in its current form. I think he could do so much more at the moment if, like you said, he would focus on problems that can be solved as soon as possible and demonstrate a use of his solution.

6ren 14y ago

It's as if you took a lot of very good food and some dog excrement and blended it all up so that you can't possibly figure out what's good or bad. http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/douglas-r-hofstadter http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/douglas-r-hof... I see what DRF means, and The Singularity is Near did seem mostly a perfunctory literature review, with important issues not discussed, just skimmed over. (For example, he doesn't discussed the causes of accelerating returns, doesn't support the causes with data, only the effects. Another example: is it necessarily true that we are intelligent enough to understand ourselves? We're effective when we can something decompose hierarchically into simpler concepts... but what if there isn't such a decomposition of intelligence? i.e. the simplest decomposition is too complex for us to grasp. Hofstadner asks if a giraffe is intelligent enough to understand itself.) But I thought he supported his basic thesis, that progress is accelerating, compellingly. Really did a great job (seems to be the result of ongoing criticism, and him finding ways to refute it).

rpm4321 14y ago
DRH?
- eksabajt 14y ago
  Douglas Richard Hofstadter
  - rpm4321 14y ago
    I know. He has DRF, so I was just letting him know about a confusing typo.
backprojection 14y ago
>For example, he doesn't discussed the causes of accelerating returns, doesn't support the causes with data, only the effects. I agree with this. It seems to be a huge hole in the entire discussion. It's not enough to cite historical data, and assert that exponential growth will continue indefinitely. I could speculate a bit about some explanations. But I'm curious if there are any good discussions out there, does anyone have some recommendations?

waterlesscloud 14y ago

It's seemed pretty clear to me for some time that Google's real mission is AI/singularity oriented and everything else is just a step along that road. It may not be what the day-to-day view is in the trenches, but it seems like the high level plan. A hire like this one certainly reinforces that perception. I don't know if it's truly possible to accomplish, but it's fascinating to see a major company taking steps in that directions.

nostrademons 14y ago
"Organize the world's information and make it universally accessible and useful." If you take that to the limit, the logical consequence is some sort of planet-wise consciousness that can instantly pull up any of humanity's collective knowledge at a moment's notice.
- Raphael 14y ago
  Doesn't it already do that?
  - nostrademons 14y ago
    Google employees tend to be harsher on our current achievements than the general public. :-)
  - swah 14y ago
    Thinking about it, I dont think so. Because if you ask google and also ask a folk that is an expert on something or loves the subject, the person will give you much better information and links.
xianshou 14y ago
Google: maximizing the sum of consciousness.
dbyrd 14y ago
Google has thousands of employees who all have a moderate amount of autonomy. I don't think they have a singular goal. They just do a bunch of stuff around organizing the world's data. Naturally AI/singularity oriented projects tend to emerge.

michaelochurch 14y ago

I wonder how the blind allocation process will treat him. His domain expertise is AI, but he didn't do any of that At Google, which means it doesn't exist. So is he going to have to spend 18 months maintaining a legacy ad-targeting product while the 26-year-old Staff SWE next to him works on its replacement? How is he going to handle that?

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dumitrue 14y ago
Why would you ever think that he is being blindly allocated to the position of Director of Engineering? In that position, he'll pretty much be in control of his own destiny at Google.
- michaelochurch 14y ago
  When I was there, Directors were still above the Real Googler Line, but it may have moved up in the time since then. Also, he lives in Massachusetts, which means he'll only get the work that MTV doesn't want (unless he moves). Finally, with his visibility, he's going to get a lot of prank Perf and his manager is going to have a hard time promoting him because of that.
  - deleted 14y ago
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  - Simucal 14y ago
    prank Perf?
    - michaelochurch 14y ago
      Anyone can write unsolicited reviews for anyone, with an option of it being visible only to the manager (aka graffiti in the executive washroom). If someone gets pissed off about his transhumanism (especially if he starts talking about the Singularity on eng-misc, or if he has questions related to assigning Real Names to AIs, or if someone just doesn't like Canada and won't forgive him for his work with Our Lady Peace in 2000-1) and decides to "Perf" him, he could be in trouble. If someone like Ray Kurzweil ends up on a PIP I will call the fabric of the universe broken.

jonmc12 14y ago

Given Kurzweil's age and stated goals, I'm thinking there is no way he is going to Google unless they are investing in life extension / prevention of death. Read between the lines - "next decade’s ‘unrealistic’ visions" - is likely nothing less than brain computer interfaces with the end goal of extending life by storing the entire human mind on a machine. Certainly not far off from Kurweil's timelines on Law of Accelerating Returns. I can understand why the PR does not say this, but it seems clear this is where Kurzweil would want to invest his time.

rdl 14y ago
Heh, Google Life Extension, so you can live longer and thus view more ads in your lifetime.

cs702 14y ago

Thanks in part to the popularity of his books, movie, and speeches, Kurzweil now knows pretty much every AI researcher in the planet, and we can safely assume he's aware of even very obscure research projects in the field, both inside and outside academia. Joining Google gives him ready access to data sets of almost unimaginable size, as well as unparalleled infrastructure and skills for handling such large data sets, putting him in an ideal position to connect researchers in academic and corporate settings with the data, infrastructure, and data management skills they need to make their visions a reality. According to the MIT Technology Review[1], he will be working with Peter Norvig, who is not just Google's Director of Research, but a well-known figure in AI. -- [1] http://www.technologyreview.com/view/508896/what-google-sees-in-new-hire-futurist-ray-kurzweil/ http://www.technologyreview.com/view/508896/what-google-sees...

cschmidt 14y ago
I just can't see Kurzweil being in the same league as Peter Norvig. Sure, he did some interesting work a long time ago, before he got weird. I can't see this working out well for Google, unless they just want a famous figurehead.
- kanzure 14y ago
  > Sure, he did some interesting work a long time ago, before he got weird. You know, it would be wonderful if Ray Kurzweil actually works on software/hardware projects, and he's just hush-hush because he doesn't want to release experiments. Maybe he does more than writing books and speaking at conferences, and he secretly provisions ec2 clusters to experiment with Hadoop or whatever. Maybe he's not just some old geezer that pops lots of pills, maybe he's an old geezer that pops pills and writes Go. At least, that's what I tell myself to not be as angry about his "prediction from a distance" branding. On a somewhat related note, http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ http://heybryan.org/fernhout/ has some old emails someone sent to Ray, exploring his lack of involvement in the open source transhumanist hardware/software community.
- rpm4321 14y ago
  I'm reposting this comment I made a couple of months ago. He's no John McCarthy, but he was a true pioneer in the commercial applications of AI: ================================== I don't think that's a very fair assessment of Kurzweil's role in technology. He was on the ground, getting his hands dirty with the first commercial applications of AI. He made quite a bit of money selling his various companies and technologies, and was awarded the presidential Medal of Technology from Clinton. As I was growing up, there was a series of "Oh wow!" moments I had, associated with computers and the seemingly sci-fi things they were now capable of. "Oh wow, computers can read printed documents and recognize the characters!" "Oh wow, computers can read written text aloud!" "Oh wow, computers can recognize speech!" "Oh wow, computer synthesizers can sound just like pianos now!" I didn't realize until much later that Kurzweil was heavily involved with all of those breakthroughs.

brandall10 14y ago

I'm somewhat surprised there are comments debating what use he could be to Google or what interest they might have in him - Google is one of the primary backers of Singularity University. They already have a working relationship. Now he's an employee. Don't get how this could be a stretch. Singularity U as far as I understand is not really there so people can more quickly get to the point of uploading their brain to the cloud or anything - it's essentially for business strategists who want to have a better grasp of where things will be in 5-10+ years out. If the Goog believes strongly in the Kurz's ability to do this then it seems like a pretty nice score for the Goog.

kanzure 14y ago
> They already have a working relationship. Now he's an employee. Don't get how this could be a stretch. Maybe because of his role at Google, "Director of Engineering". That's not a good description of what Singularity University offers their customers. They do maybe one or two field trips to BioCurious and call it quits. Also, why is Singularity University managing TedxAustin? That was a bizarre email to see.
- brandall10 14y ago
  Really? Their stated goal is: "assemble, educate and inspire a cadre of leaders who strive to understand and facilitate the development of exponentially advancing technologies and apply, focus and guide these tools to address humanity’s grand challenges." Why would this not in alignment w/ Google's aim for such a position? Why would they not want a strategist they believe who could direct their engineering staff in this manner? The people who attend the university are CEOs, CTOs... Directors of Engineering, etc. It's not for fringe kooks to congregate in celebration of the upcoming nerd rapture. Not at $25k/10 weeks it ain't. I get that he's a polarizing figure. But there are some very powerful people in this world who believes the man can walk on water.
  - kanzure 14y ago
    > Why would this not in alignment w/ Google's aim for such a position? Singularity University helps you meet people who can help you facilitate engineering feats, in the sense that more money helps you facilitate engineering feats. That's okay in my book. But, you're not going to end up with a working knowledge of mechanical engineering or computational neuroscience by hanging out at the Singularity University lectures. People are surprised about at how far "Director of Engineering" can skew in that direction, they aren't surprised that Google is interested in the future.

nealabq 14y ago

What's Kurzweil's motive? He's a visionary who can deliver a finished product. I think he must have some pretty specific ideas, and he wants to partner with Google. A few guesses: - New interfaces to replace keyboard/mouse/touch. Voice, gesture, face, brainwaves. Sign language with humming, blinking, and pupil pointing. Works with tablets, TVs, wearables, cars, buildings, ATMs, etc. - SuperPets (r) that can pass the Turing test. And do the shopping. - Surgically implanted Bluetooth. (It could literally be a tooth!) - Hover skateboards. - The Matrix. (Or the 13th Floor, which was a better movie in my not-so humble opinion.) I don't think it'll have to do with life-extension though. That's just too crazy far out-there.

kanzure 14y ago
> - New interfaces to replace keyboard/mouse/touch. Voice, gesture, face, brainwaves. Unfortunately, it turns out you can only get a limited number of bits out by looking at brainwaves (EEG). Gesture is much higher bandwidth, and keyboards seem to be the highest.
- nealabq 14y ago
  But American Sign Language is gestures, and it seems higher bandwidth than spoken English. Just an informal uninformed observation, I don't know ASL. And I can't type as fast as I can talk. So I'm thinking gesticulating > speaking > typing.
  - kanzure 14y ago
    > And I can't type as fast as I can talk. Some of us can. http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanz... Well, almost. Mobile interfaces certainly aren't helping. I am not sure how much I would like a vocal way of typing out code, but I suspect I wouldn't.
- bquarant 14y ago
  Saving this post to laugh at later.
- 14y ago

SparrowOS 14y ago

Nigger-retard-doctors. God says... 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. 10:2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. 10:3 Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the LORD spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace. 10:4 And Moses called Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel the uncle of Aaron, and said unto them, Come near, carry your brethren from before the sanctuary out of the camp.

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joey_muller 14y ago

Wow, Google's stock should rise on this news. Many folks may not know Kurzweil keyboards (for music), but they are excellent. I can't wait to see where he leads us next.

pbw 14y ago

Seems sad, I'd like to see Kurzweil form another startup and get bought by Google, rather than go work for them. I assume he could self-fund something, I don't how his hedge funds are doing. But maybe he's been there and done that, and wants mucho resources from day one. Maybe the AI space has grown up and it's hard to start up companies now, you need the resources and big data sets to do anything significant? Or he's just after the free lunches.

queensnake 14y ago
Maybe Google has a monopoly on all the smartest people anymore, or, is just one-stop shopping for support for the biggest ideas. Ray's worth 27 million and as you said has many of his own companies, he doesn't need a salary.

dinkumthinkum 14y ago

The problem is, and I don't want to be mean about it, is that Kurzweil is a crackpot and charlatan. This is not to take away from his intelligence or his technical achievements, which are indisputable. However, even Nobel prize winners can be outright crackpots and crazies (Nobel disease). I don't know exactly what Google's motives are here, I suspect it's something less than actually bringing about some of his, let's say, loftier ideas.

Lost_BiomedE 14y ago
If I were Google, I would hire him just to mumble into a recorder all day. Then have a small team decipher and escalate possible ideas.

nnq 14y ago

gotta love this guy: > 1%... you're pretty much finished... try that with product submission schedules [1] ...so now we know who to blame for future Google product delays. [1]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihTWh5i2C4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihTWh5i2C4 EDIT: added the source link

TommyDANGerous 14y ago

Google will build Skynet, and Skynet will take us over.

samskiter 14y ago

I think this is the real let down prediction: In 2008, Ray Kurzweil said in an expert panel in the National Academy of Engineering that solar power will scale up to produce all the energy needs of Earth's people in 20 years. lololololol