5 ms·

> Smiling at strangers is considered poor social form here and it doesn't matter if you're a foreigner or native. It's not. Insincerity and mindless, automatic

by jaen 1mo ago

> Smiling at strangers is considered poor social form here and it doesn't matter if you're a foreigner or native. It's not. Insincerity and mindless, automatic smiles might be a little bit frowned upon. Genuine, but subtle smiles (as appropriate for strangers) are appreciated, at least for the younger generation. The older generation might still be somewhat "traumatized" by the Soviet occupation and its cultural effects.

someoneeestis 1mo ago
Well, you can tell that to all the Nõmme, Tondi, Pirita, Kesklinn, Tartu, Viljandi, Karksi-Nuia amongst other places I've lived where I've smiled and said "Tere hommikust!" to as they turned their face away and pretended I didn't exist. I've also lived in Amsterdam and even people on the street who were not my neighbors smiled and said good morning and often that triggered a little conversation and laughters. Like I said, I'm Brazilian and I've also lived in Ireland where people are super warm. There is no "insincerity" and "mindless" assumed, only the desire to make our days a little more bearable, warm and welcoming. The younger generation is better indeed but they also come with a new set of anti-social behavior. Just like every generation, really. Not blaming either one in here. The attitude always shifts a little when I speak Estonian, though and for that I'm happy enough. I have adapted but will never stop smiling at the shops or at the people who live nearby. I don't expect them to be like me but I also won't erase myself as if I'm being insincere because I'm simply not. I rather be a positive force for change. To each their own, I reckon. I guess a good neighbor it's the one you don't talk to.
- jaen 1mo ago
  I didn't imply that you were being insincere... re: the greeting, I think introverts around the world do not necessarily appreciate being randomly greeted by strangers, they just get used to it if the culture is like that. From that perspective, I don't think just a random greeting from a stranger always makes people feel more warm and the days more bearable either. It's more of a correlation rather than causation. People have different personalities and different associations.
  - someoneeestis 1mo ago
    Totally agree with you, introverts everywhere will frown upon that. But there's a inherent difference between the "general" aspects of the culture and friendliness of every country. I was just highlighting a general aspect of Estonian culture. I've also had amazing and unforgettable memories in Estonia with people who I never saw again in my life. It's just harder in here. As for correlation, a single stranger certainly not. But I have lost count of how many Estonians visited UK/Ireland/Spain and came back telling me they were so happy about being an "amigo" or at having incredible customer service that didn't make them feel unwelcome like a chore. It does matter.
  - notahacker 1mo ago
    > re: the greeting, I think introverts around the world do not necessarily appreciate being randomly greeted by strangers, they just get used to it if the culture is like that the flip side is that extroverts around the world don't necessarily like everyone giving the impression that their existence is an inconvenience, they just get used to it if the culture implies that seeking interaction with people they don't have a close interaction with is rude or suspicious behaviour... (as for Estonia it may have assimilated Russian smile-aversion as well as being nearly as culturally introverted as Finland)
    - someoneeestis 1mo ago
      > re: the flip side is that extroverts around the world don't necessarily like everyone giving the impression that their existence is an inconvenience. I couldn't have said it better and I'm stealing this from ya. Beautifully said.
  - java-man 1mo ago
    how can you tell a Finnish extrovert? he looks at YOUR boots! as an introvert, I like this discussion.
    - Saline9515 1mo ago
      Finnish people are actually quite warm and welcoming. I know that they like to say that they are introverts, but each time I spend time there I find it very easy to engage, and always have people talking to me (even if it is to warn me of something that I did wrong!).
- busterarm 1mo ago
  I would also say Brazil and Ireland are unusually friendly & warm compared to most of the world. Irish people making small talk is practically a competitive sport.
  - someoneeestis 1mo ago
    Damn right, brother! Damn right!
embedding-shape 1mo ago
Things like these tend to differ wildly based on how big the population is at the place. In many countries, people in small towns will smile and greet you even if you're a stranger, while in metropolitan areas people won't even look in your direction unless some emergency or out of the ordinary stuff goes on. Also the geographical location can matter, especially in larger countries, not sure this applies to Estonia though, worth considering maybe :) Could be one of you is sharing the experience of life in a city, while the other is sharing the experience of some smaller places, or just two places very far away from each other?
- someoneeestis 1mo ago
  I've lived in both biggest cities in Estonia and small towns as well as Dublin and Amsterdam. So I've experienced either side of the coin. The fact is that the collective conscience of Estonians (and perhaps Baltics in general) works like that. I love this place with all my heart and I'm not claiming to hold any absolute truth, but perception built over 12 years here and years in other places. I'm totally okay with disagreeing, I was just answering in earnest.
Saline9515 1mo ago
Estonians are proudly and openly antisocial. Saying "Tere" (hi) to a cashier will only get you a stare from her, they openly joke online that they never talked to their neighbors after a decade of living there. Interestingly, cars are very important in the Estonian society, as they allow to signal one's status in a community without having to engage socially. When I arrived, I bought a car (a Skoda, neither cheap or expensive), which happened to be the same as my neighbors. Two week after, they came back with a gigantic BMW SUV, and gave me "the (contemptuous) stare" when our paths crossed in the hallway. Of course, I chuckled, which I guess wasn't the expected reaction. As a result, for most people, Estonia is a pretty depressing society, on top of being a pretty harsh and regressive social system. They are very good at marketing themselves to the world, which is why you will often see people gloating about Estonia on social media. In reality they are far on every aspect from ever being a "Nordic country", which they like to call themselves.
- d4ng 1mo ago
  Here’s a nice video: https://youtu.be/bV-hSgL1R74?si=Ei3EUfrIKvgAO3bw https://youtu.be/bV-hSgL1R74?si=Ei3EUfrIKvgAO3bw

by jaen 1mo ago

someoneeestis 1mo ago

Well, you can tell that to all the Nõmme, Tondi, Pirita, Kesklinn, Tartu, Viljandi, Karksi-Nuia amongst other places I've lived where I've smiled and said "Tere hommikust!" to as they turned their face away and pretended I didn't exist. I've also lived in Amsterdam and even people on the street who were not my neighbors smiled and said good morning and often that triggered a little conversation and laughters. Like I said, I'm Brazilian and I've also lived in Ireland where people are super warm. There is no "insincerity" and "mindless" assumed, only the desire to make our days a little more bearable, warm and welcoming. The younger generation is better indeed but they also come with a new set of anti-social behavior. Just like every generation, really. Not blaming either one in here. The attitude always shifts a little when I speak Estonian, though and for that I'm happy enough. I have adapted but will never stop smiling at the shops or at the people who live nearby. I don't expect them to be like me but I also won't erase myself as if I'm being insincere because I'm simply not. I rather be a positive force for change. To each their own, I reckon. I guess a good neighbor it's the one you don't talk to.

jaen 1mo ago
I didn't imply that you were being insincere... re: the greeting, I think introverts around the world do not necessarily appreciate being randomly greeted by strangers, they just get used to it if the culture is like that. From that perspective, I don't think just a random greeting from a stranger always makes people feel more warm and the days more bearable either. It's more of a correlation rather than causation. People have different personalities and different associations.
- someoneeestis 1mo ago
  Totally agree with you, introverts everywhere will frown upon that. But there's a inherent difference between the "general" aspects of the culture and friendliness of every country. I was just highlighting a general aspect of Estonian culture. I've also had amazing and unforgettable memories in Estonia with people who I never saw again in my life. It's just harder in here. As for correlation, a single stranger certainly not. But I have lost count of how many Estonians visited UK/Ireland/Spain and came back telling me they were so happy about being an "amigo" or at having incredible customer service that didn't make them feel unwelcome like a chore. It does matter.
- notahacker 1mo ago
  > re: the greeting, I think introverts around the world do not necessarily appreciate being randomly greeted by strangers, they just get used to it if the culture is like that the flip side is that extroverts around the world don't necessarily like everyone giving the impression that their existence is an inconvenience, they just get used to it if the culture implies that seeking interaction with people they don't have a close interaction with is rude or suspicious behaviour... (as for Estonia it may have assimilated Russian smile-aversion as well as being nearly as culturally introverted as Finland)
  - someoneeestis 1mo ago
    > re: the flip side is that extroverts around the world don't necessarily like everyone giving the impression that their existence is an inconvenience. I couldn't have said it better and I'm stealing this from ya. Beautifully said.
- java-man 1mo ago
  how can you tell a Finnish extrovert? he looks at YOUR boots! as an introvert, I like this discussion.
  - Saline9515 1mo ago
    Finnish people are actually quite warm and welcoming. I know that they like to say that they are introverts, but each time I spend time there I find it very easy to engage, and always have people talking to me (even if it is to warn me of something that I did wrong!).
busterarm 1mo ago
I would also say Brazil and Ireland are unusually friendly & warm compared to most of the world. Irish people making small talk is practically a competitive sport.
- someoneeestis 1mo ago
  Damn right, brother! Damn right!

embedding-shape 1mo ago

Things like these tend to differ wildly based on how big the population is at the place. In many countries, people in small towns will smile and greet you even if you're a stranger, while in metropolitan areas people won't even look in your direction unless some emergency or out of the ordinary stuff goes on. Also the geographical location can matter, especially in larger countries, not sure this applies to Estonia though, worth considering maybe :) Could be one of you is sharing the experience of life in a city, while the other is sharing the experience of some smaller places, or just two places very far away from each other?

someoneeestis 1mo ago
I've lived in both biggest cities in Estonia and small towns as well as Dublin and Amsterdam. So I've experienced either side of the coin. The fact is that the collective conscience of Estonians (and perhaps Baltics in general) works like that. I love this place with all my heart and I'm not claiming to hold any absolute truth, but perception built over 12 years here and years in other places. I'm totally okay with disagreeing, I was just answering in earnest.

Saline9515 1mo ago

Estonians are proudly and openly antisocial. Saying "Tere" (hi) to a cashier will only get you a stare from her, they openly joke online that they never talked to their neighbors after a decade of living there. Interestingly, cars are very important in the Estonian society, as they allow to signal one's status in a community without having to engage socially. When I arrived, I bought a car (a Skoda, neither cheap or expensive), which happened to be the same as my neighbors. Two week after, they came back with a gigantic BMW SUV, and gave me "the (contemptuous) stare" when our paths crossed in the hallway. Of course, I chuckled, which I guess wasn't the expected reaction. As a result, for most people, Estonia is a pretty depressing society, on top of being a pretty harsh and regressive social system. They are very good at marketing themselves to the world, which is why you will often see people gloating about Estonia on social media. In reality they are far on every aspect from ever being a "Nordic country", which they like to call themselves.

d4ng 1mo ago
Here’s a nice video: https://youtu.be/bV-hSgL1R74?si=Ei3EUfrIKvgAO3bw https://youtu.be/bV-hSgL1R74?si=Ei3EUfrIKvgAO3bw