5 ms·

It's sad. For all the lamenting that the US is losing industrial capacity (or lost it long ago), we can't even handle some of the lightest industry possible. A

by woah 1mo ago

It's sad. For all the lamenting that the US is losing industrial capacity (or lost it long ago), we can't even handle some of the lightest industry possible. A big building that hums and releases slightly warm water, and the only sector in which we could still be called a world leader. Instead of trying to find property tax arrangements that work to give municipalities a big payoff, and power supply arrangements that could be an opportunity to boost the green and nuclear sectors, we have political hobbyists jumping on a bandwagon of misinformation.

ransom1538 1mo ago
You are a voice a reason.
Dylan16807 1mo ago
A building that makes no physical products and has barely any workers isn't the kind of industry we lament losing. But I would say datacenters are fine if they're prevented from screwing up electricity prices and have proper pollution controls.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  Why wouldn't we lament losing it? If all else was solved, a DC is just as valid industry as any other. The fact that the provided service is nonphysical doesn't matter - every industry is different. Should probably pay taxes though, and not terrorize the neighbors.
  - Dylan16807 1mo ago
    The reasons to care about "industry" in particular are process knowledge and highly skilled labor and supply chains. Datacenters have very little involvement in any of those. And they don't bring many jobs.
    - inigyou 1mo ago
      So basically your opinion is that data centers should not be illegal. Great! Let's start by dismantling the one serving your internet connection.
      - Dylan16807 1mo ago
        > So basically your opinion is that data centers should not be illegal. Huh? Sure but that's not what I was talking about? > Let's start by dismantling the one serving your internet connection. There's a huge gap in explanation for how you got here. But home internet connections aren't served by data centers anyway.
        inigyou 1mo ago
        You just said there's no reason the government should care to allow data center construction. Any DC, not just AI DCs.
        Dylan16807 1mo ago
        No I didn't... I just said it's not relevant to "the lamenting that the US is losing industrial capacity".
  - bofadeez 1mo ago
    [flagged]
palmotea 1mo ago
> It's sad. For all the lamenting that the US is losing industrial capacity (or lost it long ago), we can't even handle some of the lightest industry possible. A big building that hums and releases slightly warm water, and the only sector in which we could still be called a world leader. No. Data centers have very, very few positive externalities for the people who live around them. They employ very few people, use a lot of infrastructure and resource, to provide services for people far from the community. And on top of that the technologies they enable are loudly marketed as things that could destroy us all, or at least take most of the well-paying jobs. If they're so great to live by, build them in Atherton.
- bpodgursky 1mo ago
  The point of industrial capacity is a positive externality for the country not that it makes someone's backyard prettier.
  - palmotea 1mo ago
    > The point of industrial capacity is a positive externality for the country not that it makes someone's backyard prettier. Yeah, that' true. What's the problem with building them in Atherton, then? The nation will get the same positive externalities if they're built there. Hell, build ones ringing the houses of Sam Altman and Dario Amodei. Larry Ellison has a whole island that could be filled with data centers. Seems like those are the best places for them. Everyone wins, right? I'm tired of the "some of you may suffer, but that's a price I'm willing to pay" BS.
    - bpodgursky 1mo ago
      Technologists would be thrilled to build them in California? This is such a weird and fake criticism, California has driven manufacturing and industry out of the state, SF tech companies don't want to build in Nevada, they are forced to by regulations. Like, none of the things you proposed doing are legal in the jurisdictions mentioned. It is NOT LEGAL for Sam Altman to build a hyperscale data center in his backyard. It is NOT LEGAL for Larry Ellison to build a hyperscale data center on his island. It's bad to criticize people for not doing things the legal system prohibits them from doing
kdheiwns 1mo ago
All hours humming is absolute torture and anyone who dismisses it has lived a very privileged life. Low humming penetrates walls, goes through ear plugs, and can be felt by the body. It carries for miles. It's inescapable. It makes it impossible to focus. It ruins sleep and destroys health. If I were the CIA and I wanted to demoralize a population and also cause a violent uprising, I'd have low bass humming constantly howling in the background within earshot of residential areas. Years ago, I lived in a town where low humming would start up in the early mornings and go for hours. It drove me insane with the back of my mind trying to figure out what was causing it while simultaneously trying to ignore it and failing. I moved far away but sometimes I hear a rumble that goes on a little too long and that sense of dread starts to creep back into my mind.
gessha 1mo ago
If only datacenter developers started with the tax and power arrangements we wouldn’t be where we are. If only the LLM-peddlers didn’t slurp up all tech supplies using VC money leaving regular people scraping up a small fortune for a heavily used DDR3 1GB stick, we wouldn’t be where we are.
thefz 1mo ago
A hum but 24x7 is devastating, and even a very little increase in water temperature can kill local fauna. Additionally you are occupying public space for a private profit.

by woah 1mo ago

ransom1538 1mo ago

You are a voice a reason.

Dylan16807 1mo ago

A building that makes no physical products and has barely any workers isn't the kind of industry we lament losing. But I would say datacenters are fine if they're prevented from screwing up electricity prices and have proper pollution controls.

inigyou 1mo ago
Why wouldn't we lament losing it? If all else was solved, a DC is just as valid industry as any other. The fact that the provided service is nonphysical doesn't matter - every industry is different. Should probably pay taxes though, and not terrorize the neighbors.
- Dylan16807 1mo ago
  The reasons to care about "industry" in particular are process knowledge and highly skilled labor and supply chains. Datacenters have very little involvement in any of those. And they don't bring many jobs.
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    So basically your opinion is that data centers should not be illegal. Great! Let's start by dismantling the one serving your internet connection.
    - Dylan16807 1mo ago
      > So basically your opinion is that data centers should not be illegal. Huh? Sure but that's not what I was talking about? > Let's start by dismantling the one serving your internet connection. There's a huge gap in explanation for how you got here. But home internet connections aren't served by data centers anyway.
      - inigyou 1mo ago
        You just said there's no reason the government should care to allow data center construction. Any DC, not just AI DCs.
        Dylan16807 1mo ago
        No I didn't... I just said it's not relevant to "the lamenting that the US is losing industrial capacity".
- bofadeez 1mo ago
  [flagged]

palmotea 1mo ago

> It's sad. For all the lamenting that the US is losing industrial capacity (or lost it long ago), we can't even handle some of the lightest industry possible. A big building that hums and releases slightly warm water, and the only sector in which we could still be called a world leader. No. Data centers have very, very few positive externalities for the people who live around them. They employ very few people, use a lot of infrastructure and resource, to provide services for people far from the community. And on top of that the technologies they enable are loudly marketed as things that could destroy us all, or at least take most of the well-paying jobs. If they're so great to live by, build them in Atherton.

bpodgursky 1mo ago
The point of industrial capacity is a positive externality for the country not that it makes someone's backyard prettier.
- palmotea 1mo ago
  > The point of industrial capacity is a positive externality for the country not that it makes someone's backyard prettier. Yeah, that' true. What's the problem with building them in Atherton, then? The nation will get the same positive externalities if they're built there. Hell, build ones ringing the houses of Sam Altman and Dario Amodei. Larry Ellison has a whole island that could be filled with data centers. Seems like those are the best places for them. Everyone wins, right? I'm tired of the "some of you may suffer, but that's a price I'm willing to pay" BS.
  - bpodgursky 1mo ago
    Technologists would be thrilled to build them in California? This is such a weird and fake criticism, California has driven manufacturing and industry out of the state, SF tech companies don't want to build in Nevada, they are forced to by regulations. Like, none of the things you proposed doing are legal in the jurisdictions mentioned. It is NOT LEGAL for Sam Altman to build a hyperscale data center in his backyard. It is NOT LEGAL for Larry Ellison to build a hyperscale data center on his island. It's bad to criticize people for not doing things the legal system prohibits them from doing

kdheiwns 1mo ago

All hours humming is absolute torture and anyone who dismisses it has lived a very privileged life. Low humming penetrates walls, goes through ear plugs, and can be felt by the body. It carries for miles. It's inescapable. It makes it impossible to focus. It ruins sleep and destroys health. If I were the CIA and I wanted to demoralize a population and also cause a violent uprising, I'd have low bass humming constantly howling in the background within earshot of residential areas. Years ago, I lived in a town where low humming would start up in the early mornings and go for hours. It drove me insane with the back of my mind trying to figure out what was causing it while simultaneously trying to ignore it and failing. I moved far away but sometimes I hear a rumble that goes on a little too long and that sense of dread starts to creep back into my mind.

gessha 1mo ago

If only datacenter developers started with the tax and power arrangements we wouldn’t be where we are. If only the LLM-peddlers didn’t slurp up all tech supplies using VC money leaving regular people scraping up a small fortune for a heavily used DDR3 1GB stick, we wouldn’t be where we are.

thefz 1mo ago

A hum but 24x7 is devastating, and even a very little increase in water temperature can kill local fauna. Additionally you are occupying public space for a private profit.