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By endemic I mean to its core, it’s the difference of having everyone being corrupt versus just the elites / political class being corrupt. If anyone thinks tha

By endemic I mean to its core, it’s the difference of having everyone being corrupt versus just the elites / political class being corrupt. If anyone thinks that the problem of corrupt elites could be improved by extending that corruption to everyone then I’m not sure what would convince them otherwise.

ElProlactin 1mo ago
Are you suggesting that all the people in countries like Cambodia are "corrupt"?
- cjbgkagh 1mo ago
  I am suggesting that it's more than the elites, then you'd have to take into account the people who would act in a corrupt way if presented with the opportunity. As someone who has tried and failed to sell software into Cambodia I know from experience that the corruption there is very thorough and continues well on down to the lower strata of society.
  - ElProlactin 1mo ago
    Have you ever even been to Cambodia? I spent half a year LIVING there. Trying to sell software into Cambodia puts you squarely in a procurement situation where you're going to encounter the patronage networks that are responsible for the corruption. So since you seem to be suggesting the Cambodians have a disposition towards "act[ing] in a corrupt way if presented with the opportunity" (versus, say, Americans who you seem to think just elect corrupt politicians but have no disposition towards corruption themselves), why don't you share your experiences with the "lower strata" of Cambodian society as a software salesman?
    - cjbgkagh 1mo ago
      No, I don’t think I will
      - ElProlactin 1mo ago
        That might be your smartest response here. In case anyone else is still reading this, there's an important context here: the US dropped 2.7 million tons of explosives on Cambodia during the Vietnam War. This is more than the Allies dropped in all of WW2. The bombing was a direct cause in the rise of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, and an estimated 20-25% of the country's population (1.5-3 million people) died under the Khmer Rouge. People in rural areas still die every year in Cambodia due to unexploded ordnance. American action against Cambodia was part of the First Indochina War, in which France was fighting to maintain a hold on its French Indochina colonial empire. In principle, the US got involved to stop the spread of communism but in reality, it was also doing France's bidding. The result: millions of innocent people were killed by US military action. Cambodia and Vietnam were left destitute after the war, and the US, having lost, engaged in an economic war against Cambodia and Vietnam through the 1980s. In 1990, the nominal GDP per capita in Cambodia and Vietnam was under $200. People literally had nothing. Hunger and threat of famine was widespread. So anytime you see a Westerner hinting that people in countries like Cambodia and Vietnam are more likely to "act in a corrupt way if presented with the opportunity", as if they are a less moral form of human being, you can read it for what it is: just a continuation of the racial, cultural and economic superiority complex of the West that has caused mass destruction all over the world and still somehow finds a way to blame its own victims for their misfortune.
        Dylan16807 1mo ago
        No. A country is not a homogenous mass, and people hated Vietnam, and that was decades ago. Someone in the US mentioning Cambodia's abysmal position on the corruption perception index should understand the fucked up role their country had in that but that doesn't mean they're having a "superiority complex" or "blaming" the wrong people.
        ElProlactin 1mo ago
        The OP stated: > ...the corruption there is very thorough and continues well on down to the lower strata of society. This coming from a person who apparently never lived in Cambodia and might never have even visited, but who tried and failed to sell software to Cambodians. This is a perfect example of the Western superiority complex. The average person in Cambodia is 27 years old. Well over half the population lives in rural areas, where median salaries are under $300/month and higher education enrollment is not even 25%. The implied suggestion that Cambodians are a more corruptible form of human is as sad as it is ridiculous.
deleted 1mo ago
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Dylan16807 1mo ago
Sure, I agree with you. I was using the other person's broader description of endemic there.

ElProlactin 1mo ago

Are you suggesting that all the people in countries like Cambodia are "corrupt"?

cjbgkagh 1mo ago
I am suggesting that it's more than the elites, then you'd have to take into account the people who would act in a corrupt way if presented with the opportunity. As someone who has tried and failed to sell software into Cambodia I know from experience that the corruption there is very thorough and continues well on down to the lower strata of society.
- ElProlactin 1mo ago
  Have you ever even been to Cambodia? I spent half a year LIVING there. Trying to sell software into Cambodia puts you squarely in a procurement situation where you're going to encounter the patronage networks that are responsible for the corruption. So since you seem to be suggesting the Cambodians have a disposition towards "act[ing] in a corrupt way if presented with the opportunity" (versus, say, Americans who you seem to think just elect corrupt politicians but have no disposition towards corruption themselves), why don't you share your experiences with the "lower strata" of Cambodian society as a software salesman?
  - cjbgkagh 1mo ago
    No, I don’t think I will
    - ElProlactin 1mo ago
      That might be your smartest response here. In case anyone else is still reading this, there's an important context here: the US dropped 2.7 million tons of explosives on Cambodia during the Vietnam War. This is more than the Allies dropped in all of WW2. The bombing was a direct cause in the rise of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge, and an estimated 20-25% of the country's population (1.5-3 million people) died under the Khmer Rouge. People in rural areas still die every year in Cambodia due to unexploded ordnance. American action against Cambodia was part of the First Indochina War, in which France was fighting to maintain a hold on its French Indochina colonial empire. In principle, the US got involved to stop the spread of communism but in reality, it was also doing France's bidding. The result: millions of innocent people were killed by US military action. Cambodia and Vietnam were left destitute after the war, and the US, having lost, engaged in an economic war against Cambodia and Vietnam through the 1980s. In 1990, the nominal GDP per capita in Cambodia and Vietnam was under $200. People literally had nothing. Hunger and threat of famine was widespread. So anytime you see a Westerner hinting that people in countries like Cambodia and Vietnam are more likely to "act in a corrupt way if presented with the opportunity", as if they are a less moral form of human being, you can read it for what it is: just a continuation of the racial, cultural and economic superiority complex of the West that has caused mass destruction all over the world and still somehow finds a way to blame its own victims for their misfortune.
      - Dylan16807 1mo ago
        No. A country is not a homogenous mass, and people hated Vietnam, and that was decades ago. Someone in the US mentioning Cambodia's abysmal position on the corruption perception index should understand the fucked up role their country had in that but that doesn't mean they're having a "superiority complex" or "blaming" the wrong people.
        ElProlactin 1mo ago
        The OP stated: > ...the corruption there is very thorough and continues well on down to the lower strata of society. This coming from a person who apparently never lived in Cambodia and might never have even visited, but who tried and failed to sell software to Cambodians. This is a perfect example of the Western superiority complex. The average person in Cambodia is 27 years old. Well over half the population lives in rural areas, where median salaries are under $300/month and higher education enrollment is not even 25%. The implied suggestion that Cambodians are a more corruptible form of human is as sad as it is ridiculous.

deleted 1mo ago

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Dylan16807 1mo ago

Sure, I agree with you. I was using the other person's broader description of endemic there.