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> Germany's electrical prices are mostly in line with it's neighbours PL: ~21ct/kWh LX: ~20ct/kWh AT: ~19ct/kWh NL: ~19ct/kWh BE: ~17ct/kWh FR: ~16ct/kWh

> Germany's electrical prices are mostly in line with it's neighbours PL: ~21ct/kWh LX: ~20ct/kWh AT: ~19ct/kWh NL: ~19ct/kWh BE: ~17ct/kWh FR: ~16ct/kWh DK: ~9ct/kWh Germany: 23ct/kWh (or: about 25% higher than the EU average)[0] Of course Germany "is mostly in line" if your ideology depends on it. [0] https://cubeconcepts.de/en/europes-industrial-electricity-prices-2024/ https://cubeconcepts.de/en/europes-industrial-electricity-pr...

hunterpayne 1mo ago
For reference, that's about 4x the worldwide average electricity price.
- woodpanel 1mo ago
  Exactly. I'm starting to wonder how much higher our neighbors' prices are thanks to our excessive excess-energy emergency-dumping during green-energy peaks. How much of that "EU average" is "Germany as a cost externality for its neighbouring energy grids"?
  - mono442 1mo ago
    Electricity is expensive in the EU because of the EU ETS.
  - uecker 1mo ago
    How does "emergency-dumping" create cost to neighbors? But what you miss is that most of the EU now has a lot of renewables.
    - woodpanel 1mo ago
      dude. you need infrastructure to have your grid deal with the sudden spikes and sudden drops for it to not go up in flames. why do you think those German excess energy dumps regulary end up having negative prices? Because Germany at some point willingly pays its neighbors for not having its own grid black out.
      - uecker 1mo ago
        Your understanding of this is poor. First, the same is true with neighbors putting renewables on the grid, it is not just Germany having renewables anymore. But the issue is not that the "grid goes up in flames". In Germany it is mostly that renewables have priority, so are not turned off. This is also not really bad, because it encourages investments into storage.
      - eigenspace 1mo ago
        Germany has the ability to curtail renewables when there's no buyers available for it. They offer low or even negative prices though specifically because it's better for just about everyone than production curtailment. If Germany's neighbours don't want to buy cheap or negatively priced electricity, they don't have to.

hunterpayne 1mo ago

For reference, that's about 4x the worldwide average electricity price.

woodpanel 1mo ago
Exactly. I'm starting to wonder how much higher our neighbors' prices are thanks to our excessive excess-energy emergency-dumping during green-energy peaks. How much of that "EU average" is "Germany as a cost externality for its neighbouring energy grids"?
- mono442 1mo ago
  Electricity is expensive in the EU because of the EU ETS.
- uecker 1mo ago
  How does "emergency-dumping" create cost to neighbors? But what you miss is that most of the EU now has a lot of renewables.
  - woodpanel 1mo ago
    dude. you need infrastructure to have your grid deal with the sudden spikes and sudden drops for it to not go up in flames. why do you think those German excess energy dumps regulary end up having negative prices? Because Germany at some point willingly pays its neighbors for not having its own grid black out.
    - uecker 1mo ago
      Your understanding of this is poor. First, the same is true with neighbors putting renewables on the grid, it is not just Germany having renewables anymore. But the issue is not that the "grid goes up in flames". In Germany it is mostly that renewables have priority, so are not turned off. This is also not really bad, because it encourages investments into storage.
    - eigenspace 1mo ago
      Germany has the ability to curtail renewables when there's no buyers available for it. They offer low or even negative prices though specifically because it's better for just about everyone than production curtailment. If Germany's neighbours don't want to buy cheap or negatively priced electricity, they don't have to.