5 ms·

>and I maintained it How do you plan on maintaining your CD and DVD players when the new ones will be sold with a subscription plan like printers?

steveBK123 1mo ago
Good luck making my record player dial into the DRM server
otaconjh 1mo ago
remember that time all of the frontier AI labs trained their models on copyrighted material and no one batted an eyelid? If they can do that, I don't see why I can't back up my CD's and DVDs or digital purchases with digital copies sourced from the high seas. If buying isn't owning...
- saghm 1mo ago
  The obvious risk is that you don't have nearly as much budget to spend on lawyers if someone does come after you for it. The copyright system tends to disproportionately punish small players and not punish larger ones.
  - queenkjuul 1mo ago
    Personal backup copies are fully legal, RIAA and MPA admit as much on their own websites; this was settled back in the VHS and cassette tape era
    - saghm 1mo ago
      The part I was responding to was "with digital copies sourced from the high seas". The premise that they were responding to was if the only domestically available media playing devices required subscriptions. It's not clear why the assumption would be that getting content from arbitrary international online sources would be something that isn't also sanctioned in this scenario. That doesn't mean the entire scenario is likely, but if that's the objection, then why reply to me and not the original comment proposing it?
      - queenkjuul 1mo ago
        I replied to you because my point is that it's established law that they cannot come after you for a backup of a title you own, and even the rights holders admit that. Selling machines that require subscriptions to operate doesn't change the settled law about having backups of things you bought.
  - Grimburger 1mo ago
    The lawyers cost a lot more than what you are going to get back from GP in a copyright lawsuit.
    - saghm 1mo ago
      That doesn't seem to have stopped any prosecutions for piracy in the past
      - inigyou 1mo ago
        It actually did. There weren't that many, they were just high profile news at the time. And most of them either lost or recovered minimal damages. There was no actual $250,000 payment for downloading an MP3. That's why the industry stopped doing it and now only targets distribution sites.
        autoexec 1mo ago
        The RIAA/MPA still goes after individuals, but they target them with settlement offers to avoid going to court. 3k and an admission of guilt is a lot less than it would cost to get a lawyer and fight back in court so people do pay them, including completely innocent people since the companies who spam out DMCA notices don't care all that much about accuracy. They've also been going after ISPs and extracting money from them for no reason, but after losing the Cox case, that might not end up being worth it to them.
  - dd8601fn 1mo ago
    How and why does anyone “come after you” for backing up your own BluRays, though? Assuming you’re not redistributing, of course, which is another thing entirely.
    - saghm 1mo ago
      You seem to have missed this part: > digital copies sourced from the high seas
  - inigyou 1mo ago
    They can't come after us all. We outnumber them. Also we have disk encryption now. Admit to nothing.
- inigyou 1mo ago
  "If buying isn't owning, piracy isn't stealing." We've all heard this. But let's not forget that recently, some important representative of Microsoft went and told some important politicians, that buying is stealing. Yes. She said that buying is stealing. Buying the game and playing multiplayer on your own server is stealing, more specifically. So if buying is stealing, why not pirate?
kop316 1mo ago
Citation needed for this, as this makes no sense. However, content shifting (i.e. ripping from CD to digital) is a thing, and that's what I do with my physical media.
jerf 1mo ago
You don't get in the locked box in the first place. That's the whole point. A day may come where it is the only option. In which case, personally, I will still advocate for not getting in the box. If they're going to hold "music" and "movies" hostage tell them to go fuck themselves. It's your money they're using to lock you in. And the day that I have nothing left that can play MP3 files is too far in the future to be sure about anyhow. If you're really concerned that that is a likely future, you need to be joining with me now, not trying to discourage me about the hopelessness of the task. The only reason it's hopeless is your apparent willingness to pay other people to lock you in. If you don't accept that bargain, you won't be locked in. Further helping is that these closed ecosystems tend to collapse anyhow. If you're locked in, why spend money on giving you good content? Even if they are appealing today, they won't be tomorrow.
- altmanaltman 1mo ago
  With the planned death of physical media for games, it will soon become impossible to do so. Like, Sony literally plans to stop making discs starting in 2028, and all games you buy will have to be digital only. GTA 6 is just giving a code in a box. It's really the end of times for physical media in a few years, maybe something can change if consumers push back but they likely will not if we are being realistic. https://blog.playstation.com/2026/07/01/physical-disc-production-ending-in-january-2028-for-new-games-releasing-on-playstation-consoles/ https://blog.playstation.com/2026/07/01/physical-disc-produc...
  - jerf 1mo ago
    I don't think you're quite getting it. I'm saying, don't get in the box. "But the bait looks so nice!" Yes. Yes it does. Yes, you may have to sacrifice and not get some things you want in the moment. Our capitalistic overlords have demonstrated that they will absolutely abuse you to the maximum extent you permit. If you are willing to give everything to play GTA 6, then they will take it. The compensation is that there is already more than you could possibly do available in spaces where they are not locking you in a box, or you can break out of the box with minimal moral quandaries and technical difficulties. This isn't really news. Control your desires or they will control you is not new wisdom. Though the modern ability to exploit other's inability to control their desires certainly does have some new twists on it. "Each man's master is the person who has the authority over what the man wishes or does not wish, so as to secure it, or take it away. Whoever, therefore, wants to be free, let him neither wish for anything, nor avoid anything, that is under the control of others; or else he is necessarily a slave." - The Encheridion Of Epictetus, second century AD https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page%3ADiscourses_of_Epictetus_volume_2_Oldfather_1928.djvu/505 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page%3ADiscourses_of_Epictetu...
trelane 1mo ago
> How do you plan on maintaining your CD and DVD players when the new ones will be sold with a subscription plan like printers? If you buy physical media, you should rip it to FLAC and put the original disc in a safe place.
queenkjuul 1mo ago
It's genuinely hard to imagine commodity USB DVD-ROM drives being sold with subscriptions? There's millions of them, they cost nothing, they're built by a dozen no name Chinese factories
- elzbardico 1mo ago
  Buy a generic one from China.
  - queenkjuul 1mo ago
    ... That is my point
pjmlp 1mo ago
Plenty of dumb CD and DVD players on the market, and flea market for that matter.
autoexec 1mo ago
Rip them to a hard drive and they're yours forever.
bigfishrunning 1mo ago
I've never seen this for CD or DVD players, and only the shittiest printers are sold with a subscription plan. Plenty of unencumbered printers available, and CD and DVD players even more so

steveBK123 1mo ago

Good luck making my record player dial into the DRM server

otaconjh 1mo ago

remember that time all of the frontier AI labs trained their models on copyrighted material and no one batted an eyelid? If they can do that, I don't see why I can't back up my CD's and DVDs or digital purchases with digital copies sourced from the high seas. If buying isn't owning...

saghm 1mo ago
The obvious risk is that you don't have nearly as much budget to spend on lawyers if someone does come after you for it. The copyright system tends to disproportionately punish small players and not punish larger ones.
- queenkjuul 1mo ago
  Personal backup copies are fully legal, RIAA and MPA admit as much on their own websites; this was settled back in the VHS and cassette tape era
  - saghm 1mo ago
    The part I was responding to was "with digital copies sourced from the high seas". The premise that they were responding to was if the only domestically available media playing devices required subscriptions. It's not clear why the assumption would be that getting content from arbitrary international online sources would be something that isn't also sanctioned in this scenario. That doesn't mean the entire scenario is likely, but if that's the objection, then why reply to me and not the original comment proposing it?
    - queenkjuul 1mo ago
      I replied to you because my point is that it's established law that they cannot come after you for a backup of a title you own, and even the rights holders admit that. Selling machines that require subscriptions to operate doesn't change the settled law about having backups of things you bought.
- Grimburger 1mo ago
  The lawyers cost a lot more than what you are going to get back from GP in a copyright lawsuit.
  - saghm 1mo ago
    That doesn't seem to have stopped any prosecutions for piracy in the past
    - inigyou 1mo ago
      It actually did. There weren't that many, they were just high profile news at the time. And most of them either lost or recovered minimal damages. There was no actual $250,000 payment for downloading an MP3. That's why the industry stopped doing it and now only targets distribution sites.
      - autoexec 1mo ago
        The RIAA/MPA still goes after individuals, but they target them with settlement offers to avoid going to court. 3k and an admission of guilt is a lot less than it would cost to get a lawyer and fight back in court so people do pay them, including completely innocent people since the companies who spam out DMCA notices don't care all that much about accuracy. They've also been going after ISPs and extracting money from them for no reason, but after losing the Cox case, that might not end up being worth it to them.
- dd8601fn 1mo ago
  How and why does anyone “come after you” for backing up your own BluRays, though? Assuming you’re not redistributing, of course, which is another thing entirely.
  - saghm 1mo ago
    You seem to have missed this part: > digital copies sourced from the high seas
- inigyou 1mo ago
  They can't come after us all. We outnumber them. Also we have disk encryption now. Admit to nothing.
inigyou 1mo ago
"If buying isn't owning, piracy isn't stealing." We've all heard this. But let's not forget that recently, some important representative of Microsoft went and told some important politicians, that buying is stealing. Yes. She said that buying is stealing. Buying the game and playing multiplayer on your own server is stealing, more specifically. So if buying is stealing, why not pirate?

kop316 1mo ago

Citation needed for this, as this makes no sense. However, content shifting (i.e. ripping from CD to digital) is a thing, and that's what I do with my physical media.

jerf 1mo ago

You don't get in the locked box in the first place. That's the whole point. A day may come where it is the only option. In which case, personally, I will still advocate for not getting in the box. If they're going to hold "music" and "movies" hostage tell them to go fuck themselves. It's your money they're using to lock you in. And the day that I have nothing left that can play MP3 files is too far in the future to be sure about anyhow. If you're really concerned that that is a likely future, you need to be joining with me now, not trying to discourage me about the hopelessness of the task. The only reason it's hopeless is your apparent willingness to pay other people to lock you in. If you don't accept that bargain, you won't be locked in. Further helping is that these closed ecosystems tend to collapse anyhow. If you're locked in, why spend money on giving you good content? Even if they are appealing today, they won't be tomorrow.

altmanaltman 1mo ago
With the planned death of physical media for games, it will soon become impossible to do so. Like, Sony literally plans to stop making discs starting in 2028, and all games you buy will have to be digital only. GTA 6 is just giving a code in a box. It's really the end of times for physical media in a few years, maybe something can change if consumers push back but they likely will not if we are being realistic. https://blog.playstation.com/2026/07/01/physical-disc-production-ending-in-january-2028-for-new-games-releasing-on-playstation-consoles/ https://blog.playstation.com/2026/07/01/physical-disc-produc...
- jerf 1mo ago
  I don't think you're quite getting it. I'm saying, don't get in the box. "But the bait looks so nice!" Yes. Yes it does. Yes, you may have to sacrifice and not get some things you want in the moment. Our capitalistic overlords have demonstrated that they will absolutely abuse you to the maximum extent you permit. If you are willing to give everything to play GTA 6, then they will take it. The compensation is that there is already more than you could possibly do available in spaces where they are not locking you in a box, or you can break out of the box with minimal moral quandaries and technical difficulties. This isn't really news. Control your desires or they will control you is not new wisdom. Though the modern ability to exploit other's inability to control their desires certainly does have some new twists on it. "Each man's master is the person who has the authority over what the man wishes or does not wish, so as to secure it, or take it away. Whoever, therefore, wants to be free, let him neither wish for anything, nor avoid anything, that is under the control of others; or else he is necessarily a slave." - The Encheridion Of Epictetus, second century AD https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page%3ADiscourses_of_Epictetus_volume_2_Oldfather_1928.djvu/505 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page%3ADiscourses_of_Epictetu...

trelane 1mo ago

> How do you plan on maintaining your CD and DVD players when the new ones will be sold with a subscription plan like printers? If you buy physical media, you should rip it to FLAC and put the original disc in a safe place.

queenkjuul 1mo ago

It's genuinely hard to imagine commodity USB DVD-ROM drives being sold with subscriptions? There's millions of them, they cost nothing, they're built by a dozen no name Chinese factories

elzbardico 1mo ago
Buy a generic one from China.
- queenkjuul 1mo ago
  ... That is my point

pjmlp 1mo ago

Plenty of dumb CD and DVD players on the market, and flea market for that matter.

autoexec 1mo ago

Rip them to a hard drive and they're yours forever.

bigfishrunning 1mo ago

I've never seen this for CD or DVD players, and only the shittiest printers are sold with a subscription plan. Plenty of unencumbered printers available, and CD and DVD players even more so