5 ms·

Utah isn't a power grid. They're on the western interconnect. Combined solar and wind are about 25-30% of production there. These articles about individual s

Utah isn't a power grid. They're on the western interconnect. Combined solar and wind are about 25-30% of production there. These articles about individual states are trash.

toomuchtodo 1mo ago
Utah is about half of the Pacificorp East balancing authority. https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-NW-PACE/live/fifteen_minutes https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-NW-PACE/live/fif... Nevada Power serves a substantial amount of western Utah. https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-NW-NEVP/live/fifteen_minutes https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-NW-NEVP/live/fif...
- buckle8017 1mo ago
  Cool, that's still not a grid for stability purposes.
  - nemomarx 1mo ago
    can you expand? I'm not sure I get it. isn't then having a wider interconnection better for stability and to handle solar? they can share cheap power in gluts and pull in other sources at night and so on.
    - buckle8017 1mo ago
      The energy mix of the physical grid (the western interconnect in this case) is what matters for stability. (in places with limited transmission this is more complicated but at a state level it's approximately true). articles like this talking about high solar or wind in one state are tricking people into thinking we're can actually increase inverter power sources past about 25-30%. local power authorities power mix data is about contracts and paper not energy. this kind of article is basically just lying to people.
      - bryanlarsen 1mo ago
        What do you mean by "inverter power sources"? A new build cost optimal power grid would get 90-98% of its power from solar, wind & batteries per Ember Energy.
        buckle8017 1mo ago
        solar is an inverter power source electricity from a DC to AC inverter instead of a direct an generator powered by steam yeah a grid that was more than 30% inverter sources (which includes batteries) would likely fail randomly. the big spinning metal in the stream generators provides literal inertia to the grid, flywheels can replace that but those also cost money. solar panels are cheap... of you want 200-400v DC, but if you want a national scale grid with 99.9999% uptime... they're actually not
        toomuchtodo 1mo ago
        Battery storage provides grid stability services (frequency and voltage response, broadly speaking) within milliseconds at a lower cost than thermal generation. TLDR System Diagram: Renewable generators<->Battery storage<->Transmission<->Battery storage<->Electric consumers. https://ember-energy.org/chapter/the-rise-of-batteries-plus-solar/ https://ember-energy.org/chapter/the-rise-of-batteries-plus-... Potential analysis of current battery storage systems for providing fast grid services like synthetic inertia – Case study on a 6 MW system - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352152X2202179X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S23521... | https://doi.org/10.1016/j.est.2022.106190 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.est.2022.106190 - Journal of Energy Storage Volume 57, January 2023, 106190 > Large-scale battery energy storage systems (BESS) already play a major role in ancillary service markets worldwide. Batteries are especially suitable for fast response times and thus focus on applications with relatively short reaction times. While existing markets mostly require reaction times of a couple of seconds, this will most likely change in the future. During the energy transition, many conventional power plants will fade out of the energy system. Thereby, the amount of rotating masses connected to the power grid will decrease, which means removing a component with quasi-instantaneous power supply to balance out frequency deviations the millisecond they occur. In general, batteries are capable of providing power just as fast but the real-world overall system response time of current BESS for future grid services has only little been studied so far. Thus, the response time of individual components such as the inverter and the interaction of the inverter and control components in the context of a BESS are not yet known. We address this issue by measurements of a 6 MW BESS's inverters for mode changes, inverter power gradients and measurements of the runtime of signals of the control system. The measurements have shown that in the analyzed BESS response times of 175 ms to 325 ms without the measurement feedback loop and 450 ms to 715 ms for the round trip with feedback measurements are possible with hardware that is about five years old. The results prove that even this older components can exceed the requirements from current standards. For even faster future grid services like synthetic inertia, hardware upgrades at the measurement device and the inverters may be necessary. (this paper is ~3 years old, state of the art has advanced in that time from an improvement perspective)
  - toomuchtodo 1mo ago
    https://www.eia.gov/tools/glossary/index.php?id=Balancing%20authority%20(electric) https://www.eia.gov/tools/glossary/index.php?id=Balancing%20... > Balancing authority (electric): The responsible entity that integrates resource plans ahead of time, maintains load-interchange-generation balance within a Balancing Authority Area, and supports Interconnection frequency in real time. https://www.nerc.com/glossary-of-terms https://www.nerc.com/glossary-of-terms > Definition & Scope: A BA is a NERC-certified entity responsible for matching electricity supply and demand in real-time within a specific geographic area. An ISO is an independent, non-profit corporate entity that manages regional transmission grids and runs competitive wholesale power markets. https://www.ferc.gov/electric-power-markets https://www.ferc.gov/electric-power-markets A balancing authority is quite literally a federally certified entity for maintaining grid stability. (Utah only has ~2.5GW of coal generation capacity remaining, as of this comment) https://www.gem.wiki/Utah_and_coal#Existing_coal_plants https://www.gem.wiki/Utah_and_coal#Existing_coal_plants https://www.gem.wiki/Utah_and_coal https://www.gem.wiki/Utah_and_coal https://utahnewsdispatch.com/2025/12/05/intermountain-power-plant-coal-fired-units-no-longer-operating/ https://utahnewsdispatch.com/2025/12/05/intermountain-power-... https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=67427 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=67427
Rebelgecko 1mo ago
Fwiw I think Utah is the only state with legalized plugin solar (many more on the way though!)
- toomuchtodo 1mo ago
  State plug in solar legislation tracker: https://www.brightsaver.org/legislation-tracker https://www.brightsaver.org/legislation-tracker (passed in 10 states, 2 awaiting signatures, as of this comment)
- Xt-6 1mo ago
  A few more states have recently joined it. https://pluginsolarus.com/states https://pluginsolarus.com/states
petesergeant 1mo ago
I think I know what this means, but I bet you share a better explanation with us all too of the point you're making
Rover222 1mo ago
Okay debbie downer, it's still positive news
bluGill 1mo ago
So? We can still measure how much power everyone in a state uses, and how much power the state generates. Utah generates a lot of power from non-renewable sources, and I assume (but I can't find data) they have the ability to generate a lot more but didn't because solar was used instead. That solar is a big part of what Utah generates is just big news. Now if we are comparing a hypothetical place that doesn't have anything else this wouldn't be interesting, but that isn't the case. (I'm sure my suburb generates more energy from solar than anything else - as you would expect the only other generation we have is backup generators)

Utah isn't a power grid. They're on the western interconnect. Combined solar and wind are about 25-30% of production there. These articles about individual states are trash.

toomuchtodo 1mo ago

Utah is about half of the Pacificorp East balancing authority. https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-NW-PACE/live/fifteen_minutes https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-NW-PACE/live/fif... Nevada Power serves a substantial amount of western Utah. https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-NW-NEVP/live/fifteen_minutes https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US-NW-NEVP/live/fif...

buckle8017 1mo ago
Cool, that's still not a grid for stability purposes.
- nemomarx 1mo ago
  can you expand? I'm not sure I get it. isn't then having a wider interconnection better for stability and to handle solar? they can share cheap power in gluts and pull in other sources at night and so on.
  - buckle8017 1mo ago
    The energy mix of the physical grid (the western interconnect in this case) is what matters for stability. (in places with limited transmission this is more complicated but at a state level it's approximately true). articles like this talking about high solar or wind in one state are tricking people into thinking we're can actually increase inverter power sources past about 25-30%. local power authorities power mix data is about contracts and paper not energy. this kind of article is basically just lying to people.
    - bryanlarsen 1mo ago
      What do you mean by "inverter power sources"? A new build cost optimal power grid would get 90-98% of its power from solar, wind & batteries per Ember Energy.
      - buckle8017 1mo ago
        solar is an inverter power source electricity from a DC to AC inverter instead of a direct an generator powered by steam yeah a grid that was more than 30% inverter sources (which includes batteries) would likely fail randomly. the big spinning metal in the stream generators provides literal inertia to the grid, flywheels can replace that but those also cost money. solar panels are cheap... of you want 200-400v DC, but if you want a national scale grid with 99.9999% uptime... they're actually not
        toomuchtodo 1mo ago
        Battery storage provides grid stability services (frequency and voltage response, broadly speaking) within milliseconds at a lower cost than thermal generation. TLDR System Diagram: Renewable generators<->Battery storage<->Transmission<->Battery storage<->Electric consumers. https://ember-energy.org/chapter/the-rise-of-batteries-plus-solar/ https://ember-energy.org/chapter/the-rise-of-batteries-plus-... Potential analysis of current battery storage systems for providing fast grid services like synthetic inertia – Case study on a 6 MW system - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352152X2202179X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S23521... | https://doi.org/10.1016/j.est.2022.106190 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.est.2022.106190 - Journal of Energy Storage Volume 57, January 2023, 106190 > Large-scale battery energy storage systems (BESS) already play a major role in ancillary service markets worldwide. Batteries are especially suitable for fast response times and thus focus on applications with relatively short reaction times. While existing markets mostly require reaction times of a couple of seconds, this will most likely change in the future. During the energy transition, many conventional power plants will fade out of the energy system. Thereby, the amount of rotating masses connected to the power grid will decrease, which means removing a component with quasi-instantaneous power supply to balance out frequency deviations the millisecond they occur. In general, batteries are capable of providing power just as fast but the real-world overall system response time of current BESS for future grid services has only little been studied so far. Thus, the response time of individual components such as the inverter and the interaction of the inverter and control components in the context of a BESS are not yet known. We address this issue by measurements of a 6 MW BESS's inverters for mode changes, inverter power gradients and measurements of the runtime of signals of the control system. The measurements have shown that in the analyzed BESS response times of 175 ms to 325 ms without the measurement feedback loop and 450 ms to 715 ms for the round trip with feedback measurements are possible with hardware that is about five years old. The results prove that even this older components can exceed the requirements from current standards. For even faster future grid services like synthetic inertia, hardware upgrades at the measurement device and the inverters may be necessary. (this paper is ~3 years old, state of the art has advanced in that time from an improvement perspective)
- toomuchtodo 1mo ago
  https://www.eia.gov/tools/glossary/index.php?id=Balancing%20authority%20(electric) https://www.eia.gov/tools/glossary/index.php?id=Balancing%20... > Balancing authority (electric): The responsible entity that integrates resource plans ahead of time, maintains load-interchange-generation balance within a Balancing Authority Area, and supports Interconnection frequency in real time. https://www.nerc.com/glossary-of-terms https://www.nerc.com/glossary-of-terms > Definition & Scope: A BA is a NERC-certified entity responsible for matching electricity supply and demand in real-time within a specific geographic area. An ISO is an independent, non-profit corporate entity that manages regional transmission grids and runs competitive wholesale power markets. https://www.ferc.gov/electric-power-markets https://www.ferc.gov/electric-power-markets A balancing authority is quite literally a federally certified entity for maintaining grid stability. (Utah only has ~2.5GW of coal generation capacity remaining, as of this comment) https://www.gem.wiki/Utah_and_coal#Existing_coal_plants https://www.gem.wiki/Utah_and_coal#Existing_coal_plants https://www.gem.wiki/Utah_and_coal https://www.gem.wiki/Utah_and_coal https://utahnewsdispatch.com/2025/12/05/intermountain-power-plant-coal-fired-units-no-longer-operating/ https://utahnewsdispatch.com/2025/12/05/intermountain-power-... https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=67427 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=67427

Rebelgecko 1mo ago

Fwiw I think Utah is the only state with legalized plugin solar (many more on the way though!)

toomuchtodo 1mo ago
State plug in solar legislation tracker: https://www.brightsaver.org/legislation-tracker https://www.brightsaver.org/legislation-tracker (passed in 10 states, 2 awaiting signatures, as of this comment)
Xt-6 1mo ago
A few more states have recently joined it. https://pluginsolarus.com/states https://pluginsolarus.com/states

petesergeant 1mo ago

I think I know what this means, but I bet you share a better explanation with us all too of the point you're making

Rover222 1mo ago

Okay debbie downer, it's still positive news

bluGill 1mo ago

So? We can still measure how much power everyone in a state uses, and how much power the state generates. Utah generates a lot of power from non-renewable sources, and I assume (but I can't find data) they have the ability to generate a lot more but didn't because solar was used instead. That solar is a big part of what Utah generates is just big news. Now if we are comparing a hypothetical place that doesn't have anything else this wouldn't be interesting, but that isn't the case. (I'm sure my suburb generates more energy from solar than anything else - as you would expect the only other generation we have is backup generators)