8 ms·

Correct, but people are not wrong in being more concerned about the evil biting than the one keeping it chill.

by guax 2mo ago

minraws 2mo ago
Given it's an internet forum, and people here can be anyone around the world, I understand your intent but people over index on the threat that ofc feels closer, rather than the threat that's significantly farther away. But in general if you ask folks in south east Asia you will find they are likely to be more concerned with China than US except this maddening Oil Crisis. Although I think people now are very afraid/wary of both evils. The US govt should think why people in all parts of the world including US itself feel just if not more threatened by them, than China and other evils we have floating around. I would like to hope my American friends didn't vote for this madness or maybe they did I have read DHH's tweets.
rob74 2mo ago
Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. As the saying goes: "better the devil you know". China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot (and take the whole word with it). The same cannot be said of other great powers like the US (under Trump, for more reasons than I'm willing to list here) and Russia (with Putin's completely harebrained invasion of Ukraine). China can prove me wrong any time by invading Taiwan, but I still hope they don't. Of course, if we try to keep them away from advanced chip technology, that would be further motivation to invade (although TSMC is unlikely to survive an invasion - even if it did survive the actual conflict, it would probably be destroyed or evacuated to avoid it falling into Chinese hands? But I don't want to see the hardware prices after such an event).
- Foobar8568 2mo ago
  And let's not forget the kidnapping of a foreign president, and nothing happened.
- p2detar 2mo ago
  [flagged]
  - rob74 2mo ago
    Yes we do. We also (despite theories stating the contrary) know that the current climate change is caused by us burning too many fossil fuels, that the utility of vaccines preventing deadly diseases outweighs any rare side effects, that airlines are not involved in a secret conspiracy of releasing chemicals (all airlines at the same time and only in certain meteorological conditions), and that the earth is roughly spherical.
  - jeltz 2mo ago
    We do well enough. It either happened naturally, or less likely due to a lab accident. If there is a cover up it is to hide incompetence.
    - p2detar 2mo ago
      I have read the WHO [0] report and the conclusion is "possibly to likely" about the zoonotic origin of Covid, so no there isn't conclusive report how it came to be. > If there is a cover up it is to hide incompetence. Which is my point to GP's "reliable" argument. China is not reliable and has its own interests at play just like the US or any other state for that matter, regardless of its international partnerships. It does want to project itself as "reliable" - that I can't deny. 0 - https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-study-of-origins-of-sars-cov-2-china-part https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-...
- ethbr1 2mo ago
  > China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot (and take the whole word with it) Here's the dangerous thing about that: modern CCP China is a newly ascendant world power. Say what you want about the US today, but when was it at isn't interventionist worst historically-speaking? Countries don't go to war because their leaders take them to war: they go to war because a sufficient chunk of internal interests support war. And China has a rather politically-powerful military. Although Xi's recent housecleaning substantially weakened that power. If China goes to war, it's probably going to be because their economy is in tatters.
  - rob74 2mo ago
    > If China goes to war, it's probably going to be because their economy is in tatters. Well, they probably also have to factor in whether invading Taiwan is likely to improve that situation, and I would argue that it's not - China is currently exporting stuff all over the world, so economic sanctions would be very painful for them. And there are lots of countries who would like to have a slice of the manufacturing that China is currently hogging...
    - ethbr1 2mo ago
      Very rarely do countries go to war because they think it will improve their economy. They go to war because a large chunk of their population is pissed off about the economy. See also: US
      - maest 2mo ago
        The US routinely goes to war to secure cheap oil, so I didn't think that's a good example
  - RobotToaster 2mo ago
    Great powers go to war due to Thucydides Trap. When a hegemon feels their position is threatened by the success of a rising power, they usually try to crush it. https://www.belfercenter.org/programs/thucydidess-trap/thucydidess-trap-case-file https://www.belfercenter.org/programs/thucydidess-trap/thucy...
- roysting 2mo ago
  Don’t let the manipulative narcissists lead you into the trap of false equivalence
- scottyah 2mo ago
  China has planned out the invasion/reclamation of Taiwan in 2027. They held true to their Hong Kong timeline, not sure why this would be any different.
- hollerith 1mo ago
  >China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot It can? Have you heard of the Great Leap Forward? The Cultural Revolution? Either of those damaged the metaphorical foot more than anything the US has ever done.
roysting 2mo ago
You should avoid agreeing with the narcissists that always use false equivalence, whataboutism, and goal post shifting the second you call them out. You are allowing them to define a ridiculous standard by agreeing with them that not only is it in fact “two evils” but what qualifies as evil. They’ll tell you…always only when called out, mind you…all and any meddling (also something they will then define with the same kind of falls equivalence loop) is evils, when that is simply not true, not is any kind of effort to influence the same thing as actual meddling, not us it always evil. I could go on, but I’m sure you get the point, the narcissistic personality or their little zombies in most cases will constantly shift and change things all to avoid you from being able to get a clear focus on the truth, something their explosively allergic to. As an American child of the Empire with global perspective and very high access perspective, there is no other entity besides the cabal that controls the USA and acts flying its banner; that is more deadly, more meddling, more conniving, more evil, more supremacist, and more vile.

Correct, but people are not wrong in being more concerned about the evil biting than the one keeping it chill.

by guax 2mo ago

Correct, but people are not wrong in being more concerned about the evil biting than the one keeping it chill.

Given it's an internet forum, and people here can be anyone around the world, I understand your intent but people over index on the threat that ofc feels closer, rather than the threat that's significantly farther away. But in general if you ask folks in south east Asia you will find they are likely to be more concerned with China than US except this maddening Oil Crisis. Although I think people now are very afraid/wary of both evils. The US govt should think why people in all parts of the world including US itself feel just if not more threatened by them, than China and other evils we have floating around. I would like to hope my American friends didn't vote for this madness or maybe they did I have read DHH's tweets.

rob74 2mo ago

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you. As the saying goes: "better the devil you know". China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot (and take the whole word with it). The same cannot be said of other great powers like the US (under Trump, for more reasons than I'm willing to list here) and Russia (with Putin's completely harebrained invasion of Ukraine). China can prove me wrong any time by invading Taiwan, but I still hope they don't. Of course, if we try to keep them away from advanced chip technology, that would be further motivation to invade (although TSMC is unlikely to survive an invasion - even if it did survive the actual conflict, it would probably be destroyed or evacuated to avoid it falling into Chinese hands? But I don't want to see the hardware prices after such an event).

Foobar8568 2mo ago
And let's not forget the kidnapping of a foreign president, and nothing happened.
p2detar 2mo ago
[flagged]
- rob74 2mo ago
  Yes we do. We also (despite theories stating the contrary) know that the current climate change is caused by us burning too many fossil fuels, that the utility of vaccines preventing deadly diseases outweighs any rare side effects, that airlines are not involved in a secret conspiracy of releasing chemicals (all airlines at the same time and only in certain meteorological conditions), and that the earth is roughly spherical.
- jeltz 2mo ago
  We do well enough. It either happened naturally, or less likely due to a lab accident. If there is a cover up it is to hide incompetence.
  - p2detar 2mo ago
    I have read the WHO [0] report and the conclusion is "possibly to likely" about the zoonotic origin of Covid, so no there isn't conclusive report how it came to be. > If there is a cover up it is to hide incompetence. Which is my point to GP's "reliable" argument. China is not reliable and has its own interests at play just like the US or any other state for that matter, regardless of its international partnerships. It does want to project itself as "reliable" - that I can't deny. 0 - https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-study-of-origins-of-sars-cov-2-china-part https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/who-convened-global-...
ethbr1 2mo ago
> China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot (and take the whole word with it) Here's the dangerous thing about that: modern CCP China is a newly ascendant world power. Say what you want about the US today, but when was it at isn't interventionist worst historically-speaking? Countries don't go to war because their leaders take them to war: they go to war because a sufficient chunk of internal interests support war. And China has a rather politically-powerful military. Although Xi's recent housecleaning substantially weakened that power. If China goes to war, it's probably going to be because their economy is in tatters.
- rob74 2mo ago
  > If China goes to war, it's probably going to be because their economy is in tatters. Well, they probably also have to factor in whether invading Taiwan is likely to improve that situation, and I would argue that it's not - China is currently exporting stuff all over the world, so economic sanctions would be very painful for them. And there are lots of countries who would like to have a slice of the manufacturing that China is currently hogging...
  - ethbr1 2mo ago
    Very rarely do countries go to war because they think it will improve their economy. They go to war because a large chunk of their population is pissed off about the economy. See also: US
    - maest 2mo ago
      The US routinely goes to war to secure cheap oil, so I didn't think that's a good example
- RobotToaster 2mo ago
  Great powers go to war due to Thucydides Trap. When a hegemon feels their position is threatened by the success of a rising power, they usually try to crush it. https://www.belfercenter.org/programs/thucydidess-trap/thucydidess-trap-case-file https://www.belfercenter.org/programs/thucydidess-trap/thucy...
roysting 2mo ago
Don’t let the manipulative narcissists lead you into the trap of false equivalence
scottyah 2mo ago
China has planned out the invasion/reclamation of Taiwan in 2027. They held true to their Hong Kong timeline, not sure why this would be any different.
hollerith 1mo ago
>China can at least so far be relied upon to not shoot itself in the foot It can? Have you heard of the Great Leap Forward? The Cultural Revolution? Either of those damaged the metaphorical foot more than anything the US has ever done.

roysting 2mo ago

You should avoid agreeing with the narcissists that always use false equivalence, whataboutism, and goal post shifting the second you call them out. You are allowing them to define a ridiculous standard by agreeing with them that not only is it in fact “two evils” but what qualifies as evil. They’ll tell you…always only when called out, mind you…all and any meddling (also something they will then define with the same kind of falls equivalence loop) is evils, when that is simply not true, not is any kind of effort to influence the same thing as actual meddling, not us it always evil. I could go on, but I’m sure you get the point, the narcissistic personality or their little zombies in most cases will constantly shift and change things all to avoid you from being able to get a clear focus on the truth, something their explosively allergic to. As an American child of the Empire with global perspective and very high access perspective, there is no other entity besides the cabal that controls the USA and acts flying its banner; that is more deadly, more meddling, more conniving, more evil, more supremacist, and more vile.