7 ms·

Vercel sloping it's way to clout again, they do this every month or so, clearly they want to stay in the news and some how credible and relevant. I can't think

by JoeDohn 2mo ago

Vercel sloping it's way to clout again, they do this every month or so, clearly they want to stay in the news and some how credible and relevant. I can't think of any serious company or project that would use this thing. P.S: I just checked the contributors list, I have the utmost respect to them (notably simonw), but clearly this code is claude'ish but it is not among the contributor which makes it even more suspect.

piterrro 2mo ago
That's a one big hell of a contribution ;-) https://github.com/vercel-labs/scriptc/commit/725b931cf43ba71ec154e378146fe274df0e8f65 https://github.com/vercel-labs/scriptc/commit/725b931cf43ba7...
- andytratt 2mo ago
  tis
- yard2010 2mo ago
  Do we have a name for such irony, remove the "honestly price" makes it less honest about what it is
- bilalq 2mo ago
  I get so irritated every time Claude says "honest". Anthropic talks about how they specifically engineer for it to be "honest". I'm convinced they're just measuring how many times it says the word honest instead.
  - vessenes 2mo ago
    It's in the constitution, probably a lot. And in the RL training. You can tell Anthropic is really worried about it. I'm interested in just how dishonest the so-called 'helpful only' non-RL model they have floating around internally is. Probably pretty dishonest.
  - Fredkin 2mo ago
    I have spent a small fortune in tokens trying to get Anthropic models to attempt proofs of things like the irrationality of the Euler-Mascheroni constant, and to make lattice reduction / SVP algorithms that rival SOTA methods like the G6K sieve, and all sorts of difficult frontier problems. It says 'honest' as a euphemism for giving up, because it knows I'm being a crank, and because the training data contains a lot of pessimism. But I can get around this by first having it write a prompt for itself discussing the problem followed by a rousing speech about never giving in and admitting defeat, but pressing on towards results regardless of how hard matching SOTA results is.
  - podviaznikov 2mo ago
    yeah, it crazy. I checked my history and mapped how often it started to use "honest" and it's too much https://x.com/podviaznikov/status/2067231875068768447 https://x.com/podviaznikov/status/2067231875068768447
  - ljm 2mo ago
    I'm amused by Claude developing its own corporate jargon which, while clearly pulled from the corpus of human language, is quite distinct from the bullshit traded over the boardroom table. I've had trouble unpacking some of the copy it generates because its default tone of voice is fairly unintuitive. It's almost like it's designed to induce psychosis because it makes you feel like you've discovered something novel.
  - WorldMaker 2mo ago
    Bring to mind that old classic cliche about never trust a salesperson who always says the word "honest" or uses the phrases "to be honest" or "honestly" because they are probably lying in that moment.
risyachka 2mo ago
From contributions tab, it looks like 99% was vibe-coded by 1 person, and it does not look like they have any compilers background. Edit: typo
- pas 2mo ago
  that doesn't mean much. it has a lot of tests, the architect seems sane, it fits a niche (for example scripts baked into container images don't need full (Node + tsx + esbuild) or Bun/Deno)
  - kaoD 2mo ago
    Personally my benchmark for a compiler is way higher than "it has a lot of tests". Way higher.
    - trueno 2mo ago
      this. it's also insane that some are willing to do anything but use something other than javascript. out of all the languages to die on a hill for... the only group i noddingly approve of being that programmatically bigoted are the clojure-or-i'm-setting-myself-on-fire guys. they've earned it
  - risyachka 2mo ago
    >> that doesn't mean much. it has a lot of tests tests don't mean much if you are not an expert on the subject
    - andsoitis 2mo ago
      > >> that doesn't mean much. it has a lot of tests > tests don't mean much if you are not an expert on the subject I think the bet is that the AI is an expert, given the vast literature and open source around compilers.
petesergeant 2mo ago
Claude-directed code by someone being conscientious and getting involved in the important decisions is going to be better than a whole swathe of existing open-source that was hand-written.
- andytratt 2mo ago
  oof
- Perz1val 2mo ago
  Maybe if it's a business level tool made in house with claude vs contracted to a software house in India. Never for a compiler, who even is that person?
  - TeMPOraL 2mo ago
    > Never for a compiler, who even is that person? Why do you care? It's a stranger from the Internet. Same as with any other software you're using. In particular, same as with any OSS tool you're using.
    - andsoitis 2mo ago
      > > Never for a compiler, who even is that person? > Why do you care? > It's a stranger from the Internet. Same as with any other software you're using. In particular, same as with any OSS tool you're using. Don't you think that even if you don't know someone personally, you can calibrate your trust in their ability based on reputation, track record.
      - TeMPOraL 2mo ago
        Yes. But we usually start with a high default, and only recalibrate if there's a specific reason in a given situation (e.g. there's been a specific user or sets of users involved in spreading malware, and software in question could've been targeted).
      - petesergeant 2mo ago
bubble_niter 2mo ago
Edit: Removed.
- andytratt 2mo ago
  why so many caps
- psychoslave 2mo ago
  >But apparently random HN commenters can now overrule an AI ML expert because the code "looks Claude-ish"! And let’s imagine if LLM bots could do that as well, without any human caring to type the actual messages, just orchestrating the bot fleet. What trust could be we put in such a brainless peace of publications?
- JoeDohn 2mo ago
  Indeed I am a random, but does it make me less qualified than another random ? (look up ^ )
pjmlp 2mo ago
Most SaaS products have Vercel as partner, with Next.js and React as the tier 1 SDK on their tooling.
- reactordev 2mo ago
  Careful using the term “most” when you mean “the ones I know of”. You would be surprised how much Angular is out there.
  - pjmlp 2mo ago
    Name one that gives 100% parity to React in their SDK to write extensions. Not works in some of the cases and you have to implement fetch calls yourself, or some iframe boilerplate and JS glue, everything they expose in React is fully available in Angular, including field extensions, inline previews, sidebar extensions, the whole lot.
    - mattstir 2mo ago
      That doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of Angular out there. No one's doubting how useful Next.js may or may not be, it's just a matter of fact that plenty of systems were created before it was available and not everyone has the luxury of rewriting their entire product.
      - pjmlp 2mo ago
        Moving goalposts, the point was about SaaS SDKs giving tier1 support for React and nothing else, thus giving Vercel their current market position. Invalidating the remark "I can't think of any serious company or project that would use this thing." Where's the example?
        shimman 2mo ago
        I'll be honest I have never heard of this nor do I understand why it matters. It looks like it's just internal Vercel marketing speak that basically amounts to them desperately trying to build a platform and extract rents off of it.
themgt 2mo ago
Also the same vibe-code leader as zerolang, "The Programming Language for Agents" which Vercel launched with much fanfare in May, landed 1200 commits and then stopped ~mid-June. https://github.com/vercel-labs/zerolang https://github.com/vercel-labs/zerolang https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48193539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48193539
- embedding-shape 2mo ago
  Kind of funny seeing a serious (?), grown up, for-profit company acting the same way as my scatterbrain clinging into this month's fascination. Luckily, most of my things never see the light of day, so they don't get referenced a month later in a HN burn when I publish yet another project I'll stop working on in a month.
  - pacoWebConsult 2mo ago
    Is it really that bad of an idea to experiment, put things out into public, and see what works and what sticks? They haven't abandoned agent-browser and portless, which came out of these vercel-labs efforts because they're useful tools and people are using them.
    - simlevesque 2mo ago
      Back in the days we used to call this R&D.
      - WorldMaker 2mo ago
        Back in the day companies used to have productization teams that separated pie-in-the-sky R&D from product, product teams, and product-like marketing.
    - embedding-shape 2mo ago
      > Is it really that bad of an idea to experiment I don't think so, I literally think it's fun to see. Sharing projects regardless of how done, mature, reliable, correct or not they are, feels like a net positive for humanity.
tom1337 2mo ago
> I have the utmost respect to them (notably simonw) seems like simon only changed the readme and wasn't really involved in the project. https://github.com/vercel-labs/scriptc/commits/main/?author=simonw https://github.com/vercel-labs/scriptc/commits/main/?author=...
- simonw 2mo ago
  Yeah I didn't think I'd be mistaken for being involved in the project! I deleted two words from the README.

by JoeDohn 2mo ago

piterrro 2mo ago

That's a one big hell of a contribution ;-) https://github.com/vercel-labs/scriptc/commit/725b931cf43ba71ec154e378146fe274df0e8f65 https://github.com/vercel-labs/scriptc/commit/725b931cf43ba7...

andytratt 2mo ago
tis
yard2010 2mo ago
Do we have a name for such irony, remove the "honestly price" makes it less honest about what it is
bilalq 2mo ago
I get so irritated every time Claude says "honest". Anthropic talks about how they specifically engineer for it to be "honest". I'm convinced they're just measuring how many times it says the word honest instead.
- vessenes 2mo ago
  It's in the constitution, probably a lot. And in the RL training. You can tell Anthropic is really worried about it. I'm interested in just how dishonest the so-called 'helpful only' non-RL model they have floating around internally is. Probably pretty dishonest.
- Fredkin 2mo ago
  I have spent a small fortune in tokens trying to get Anthropic models to attempt proofs of things like the irrationality of the Euler-Mascheroni constant, and to make lattice reduction / SVP algorithms that rival SOTA methods like the G6K sieve, and all sorts of difficult frontier problems. It says 'honest' as a euphemism for giving up, because it knows I'm being a crank, and because the training data contains a lot of pessimism. But I can get around this by first having it write a prompt for itself discussing the problem followed by a rousing speech about never giving in and admitting defeat, but pressing on towards results regardless of how hard matching SOTA results is.
- podviaznikov 2mo ago
  yeah, it crazy. I checked my history and mapped how often it started to use "honest" and it's too much https://x.com/podviaznikov/status/2067231875068768447 https://x.com/podviaznikov/status/2067231875068768447
- ljm 2mo ago
  I'm amused by Claude developing its own corporate jargon which, while clearly pulled from the corpus of human language, is quite distinct from the bullshit traded over the boardroom table. I've had trouble unpacking some of the copy it generates because its default tone of voice is fairly unintuitive. It's almost like it's designed to induce psychosis because it makes you feel like you've discovered something novel.
- WorldMaker 2mo ago
  Bring to mind that old classic cliche about never trust a salesperson who always says the word "honest" or uses the phrases "to be honest" or "honestly" because they are probably lying in that moment.

risyachka 2mo ago

From contributions tab, it looks like 99% was vibe-coded by 1 person, and it does not look like they have any compilers background. Edit: typo

pas 2mo ago
that doesn't mean much. it has a lot of tests, the architect seems sane, it fits a niche (for example scripts baked into container images don't need full (Node + tsx + esbuild) or Bun/Deno)
- kaoD 2mo ago
  Personally my benchmark for a compiler is way higher than "it has a lot of tests". Way higher.
  - trueno 2mo ago
    this. it's also insane that some are willing to do anything but use something other than javascript. out of all the languages to die on a hill for... the only group i noddingly approve of being that programmatically bigoted are the clojure-or-i'm-setting-myself-on-fire guys. they've earned it
- risyachka 2mo ago
  >> that doesn't mean much. it has a lot of tests tests don't mean much if you are not an expert on the subject
  - andsoitis 2mo ago
    > >> that doesn't mean much. it has a lot of tests > tests don't mean much if you are not an expert on the subject I think the bet is that the AI is an expert, given the vast literature and open source around compilers.

petesergeant 2mo ago

Claude-directed code by someone being conscientious and getting involved in the important decisions is going to be better than a whole swathe of existing open-source that was hand-written.

andytratt 2mo ago
oof
Perz1val 2mo ago
Maybe if it's a business level tool made in house with claude vs contracted to a software house in India. Never for a compiler, who even is that person?
- TeMPOraL 2mo ago
  > Never for a compiler, who even is that person? Why do you care? It's a stranger from the Internet. Same as with any other software you're using. In particular, same as with any OSS tool you're using.
  - andsoitis 2mo ago
    > > Never for a compiler, who even is that person? > Why do you care? > It's a stranger from the Internet. Same as with any other software you're using. In particular, same as with any OSS tool you're using. Don't you think that even if you don't know someone personally, you can calibrate your trust in their ability based on reputation, track record.
    - TeMPOraL 2mo ago
      Yes. But we usually start with a high default, and only recalibrate if there's a specific reason in a given situation (e.g. there's been a specific user or sets of users involved in spreading malware, and software in question could've been targeted).
    - petesergeant 2mo ago

bubble_niter 2mo ago

Edit: Removed.

andytratt 2mo ago
why so many caps
psychoslave 2mo ago
>But apparently random HN commenters can now overrule an AI ML expert because the code "looks Claude-ish"! And let’s imagine if LLM bots could do that as well, without any human caring to type the actual messages, just orchestrating the bot fleet. What trust could be we put in such a brainless peace of publications?
JoeDohn 2mo ago
Indeed I am a random, but does it make me less qualified than another random ? (look up ^ )

pjmlp 2mo ago

Most SaaS products have Vercel as partner, with Next.js and React as the tier 1 SDK on their tooling.

reactordev 2mo ago
Careful using the term “most” when you mean “the ones I know of”. You would be surprised how much Angular is out there.
- pjmlp 2mo ago
  Name one that gives 100% parity to React in their SDK to write extensions. Not works in some of the cases and you have to implement fetch calls yourself, or some iframe boilerplate and JS glue, everything they expose in React is fully available in Angular, including field extensions, inline previews, sidebar extensions, the whole lot.
  - mattstir 2mo ago
    That doesn't change the fact that there is a lot of Angular out there. No one's doubting how useful Next.js may or may not be, it's just a matter of fact that plenty of systems were created before it was available and not everyone has the luxury of rewriting their entire product.
    - pjmlp 2mo ago
      Moving goalposts, the point was about SaaS SDKs giving tier1 support for React and nothing else, thus giving Vercel their current market position. Invalidating the remark "I can't think of any serious company or project that would use this thing." Where's the example?
      - shimman 2mo ago
        I'll be honest I have never heard of this nor do I understand why it matters. It looks like it's just internal Vercel marketing speak that basically amounts to them desperately trying to build a platform and extract rents off of it.

themgt 2mo ago

Also the same vibe-code leader as zerolang, "The Programming Language for Agents" which Vercel launched with much fanfare in May, landed 1200 commits and then stopped ~mid-June. https://github.com/vercel-labs/zerolang https://github.com/vercel-labs/zerolang https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48193539 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48193539

embedding-shape 2mo ago
Kind of funny seeing a serious (?), grown up, for-profit company acting the same way as my scatterbrain clinging into this month's fascination. Luckily, most of my things never see the light of day, so they don't get referenced a month later in a HN burn when I publish yet another project I'll stop working on in a month.
- pacoWebConsult 2mo ago
  Is it really that bad of an idea to experiment, put things out into public, and see what works and what sticks? They haven't abandoned agent-browser and portless, which came out of these vercel-labs efforts because they're useful tools and people are using them.
  - simlevesque 2mo ago
    Back in the days we used to call this R&D.
    - WorldMaker 2mo ago
      Back in the day companies used to have productization teams that separated pie-in-the-sky R&D from product, product teams, and product-like marketing.
  - embedding-shape 2mo ago
    > Is it really that bad of an idea to experiment I don't think so, I literally think it's fun to see. Sharing projects regardless of how done, mature, reliable, correct or not they are, feels like a net positive for humanity.

tom1337 2mo ago

> I have the utmost respect to them (notably simonw) seems like simon only changed the readme and wasn't really involved in the project. https://github.com/vercel-labs/scriptc/commits/main/?author=simonw https://github.com/vercel-labs/scriptc/commits/main/?author=...

simonw 2mo ago
Yeah I didn't think I'd be mistaken for being involved in the project! I deleted two words from the README.