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New Framework Desktop Option with AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 495 and 192GB Memory
- andy99 2mo agoI have a framework desktop w/ 128GB that I bought last Christmas and if I’m looking at it right it costs $2000 (CAD) more now because of the RAM shortage (and in any event is apparently out of stock). Would love to have 192 GB but I’m not sure I can justify buying another. Does anyone have a sense of how this might progress, e.g if I can get a 256 or 512 GB in a year if I wait. In any case I’m jealous this exists and I don’t have one. One last thing, I assume this isn’t exclusive and there will be other builds with this same config same as current Strix Halo?
- cyanydeez 2mo agowhat I read in I think the direct AMD press, it's essentially like a 10% upgrade to compute but mostly ram. I agree, this is the direction AMD was going in to larger attached memory and they got hit by the memory cartel pricing; They likely were going to hit 256GB instead of this weird glitch in the sizing. So, yes, of course they're going to hit higher memory sizes; but since they models are meant for laptops and to get the speed you want for inference, they're soldered, you have no real options. Framework in particular might have a high value on ebay as I assume this will be a drop in replacement for their existing motherboard.
- nl 2mo agoOn RAM supplies, the best estimates I've seen are https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/dram/cxmt-close-to-matching-microns-memory-capacity-in-2026-research-claims-would-put-china-on-track-to-become-worlds-second-largest-dram-producer https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/dram/cxmt-close-t... They are estimating a 25% shortfall in supply remaining in 2030, even with Chinese companies ramping up DDR5 supply. It's not looking great - the RAM producers need more of the same machines that other semi-conductor manufactures need and the suppliers of those seem unable to increase production.
- mapontosevenths 2mo ago> the RAM producers need more of the same machines that other semi-conductor manufactures need and the suppliers of those seem unable to increase production I suspect that it is very, very profitable for them not to increase production and instead increase prices. This is one of those cases where the free market fails and governments should step-in. IP laws are there to elevate the arts and sciences, not stifle them in the name of profit.
- esseph 2mo ago> IP laws are there to elevate the arts and sciences, not stifle them in the name of profit. Hmmmmmmmmm
- mapontosevenths 2mo agoI mean, that's what the US constitution says very plainly. It does seem to be a pretty unpopular take these days though. "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
- hyperman1 2mo ago"To protect the children, ...."
- mapontosevenths 2mo agoThe government invented intellectual property for a reason, and in this context it isn't serving it's puprose. It's not some natural law or inalienable right, it's a government monopoly that trades public rights for scientific progress.
- hyperman1 2mo agoThe reason of copyright has always been to protect the current powers. To promote usefull arts has always been a whitewash. Here's e.g. wikipedia on that topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_copyright ... works of dissent and criticism could also circulate rapidly. As a consequence, governments established controls over printers ...
- myrmidon 2mo agoAre you generally happy with it? What do you mainly use it for? I'm kinda tempted by the frameworks because they are somewhat energy efficient and compact (which I both value highly!) but my concern is that the GPU is on the low end for 1440p gaming (while being barely price-competitive with a self-built Ryzen9950 + 9070XT combination).
- andy99 2mo agoI use it exclusively as a server for LLM inference - first more for research but have been using it for coding now that there are sufficiently capable models that run on. For that I’m very happy.
- data-ottawa 2mo agoMost games play just fine at 1440 or 4K with upscaling. Cyberpunk ray tracing is a bad experience, but I just finished 007 First Light on ultra settings with an 5k monitor using FSR and it was 45+ fps the whole time. Targeting 4K with fsr was 60fps. I’m not a hardcore gamer or a pro reviewer, but it mostly just works without having to change much. If I were a hardcore gamer I think I would go with a better setup. My big complaint for gaming is that they never enabled HDMI CEC. Apparently the pins are wired but they never shipped the firmware.
- Iolaum 2mo agoLikewise here, my setup costs 2k+ more eur as well. Given that memory bandwidth remains the same I don't think it's worth buying if you have the 1st gen framework desktop. Usecase caveats apply.
- matthewfcarlson 2mo agoThe market research I have seen indicated DRAM prices will not come back to “normal” until 2030 at least and probably 2031. You can wait, but it will probably be longer than a year
- nrp 2mo agoUnfortunately we don't have any indication of memory pricing coming down in the next year, and many indications pointing to memory pricing continuing to increase pretty substantially over the next six months, especially for the LPDDR5X we use in Framework Desktop.
- Tuna-Fish 2mo agoYes, others should be able to do this too, and the change is larger memory chips. The next big step is Medusa Halo, which will have a 384-bit LPDDR6 interface. Those should be able to support 256GB at release, with 512GB coming later with larger chips (But I don't know to what extent people should trust the memory vendor roadmaps.) I'm not sure if they will be out in a year. Probably will be in a year and half.
- iugtmkbdfil834 2mo agoMmm.. AI395 at 3.5k ( and out of stock mind ). And I still want to give it a shot when it is out. I suppose I just explained to myself the ridiculous jump in prices. The demand is crazy.
- chrismorgan 2mo agoNo blog post, no order, no preorder; I think the only things about it are this sentence and a half: > 192GB coming soon > The most powerful Framework Desktop yet is coming soon with an AMD Ryzen™ AI Max+ PRO 495 processor and 192GB of LPDDR5X memory.
- nrp 2mo agoIt wasn't our preferred way of making an announcement, but all that we are currently able to do this early on this pre-release processor.
- sam_lowry_ 2mo agoSo... Can it sleep with echo mem >/sys/power/state? Abd wake up without crashing?
- bakies 2mo agoMemory bandwidth certainly is the bottleneck on my 395+ 128GB. It's been a great server. Think I'll wait another year maybe hopefully the prices come down and there's one more gen of hardware and local llm gets even better. Excited for this!
- notdefio 2mo agoIm less interested in the memory than the memory bandwidth. The current system with 128GB can load pretty big models, but its meaningless unless you want to wait 40 minutes per prompt. I've had best results with Qwen3.6-35B-A3B, which uses 40GB of memory, but only uses 3 billion parameters per token which helps with throughput. Until memory bandwidth significantly improves I just can't see myself wanting to use all that memory. Unless it's just to keep a wide variety of models in memory.
- andy99 2mo agoTry poolside that came out yesterday https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49004937 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49004937 or Qwen 3.5 122B A10B, both use more memory and still have experts sized for decent speed at the 395’s memory bandwidth at 4bit quantization
- cyanydeez 2mo agoI use exactly the setup you describe; it can handle 1-3 agents working if the agent work has IO delays. with MTP models, prefill is quite fast. Not sure what damage you have, but no one waits 40 minutes per prompt or even a minute; The A3B model loads within 10 seconds and a simple response in opencode is maybe at most a minute, then catches up in 3-5second bursts depending on IO. I put dynamic context pruning into opencode and tweaked it for 45k-85k context before it shrinks; this lets me get into 500k token sizes and fixed on medium sized github repos. There's a chance this comment is a skill error: 1. USe llamacpp with a MTP model 2. Use reasoning-budget and reasoning-message 3. Tailor your agent to use the reasoning-message to use subagents and dyanmic compaction. --- Now you have a reasonable coding agent for cloning, building and extending any github project I've seen so far.
- Hackbraten 2mo ago> Seize the means of computation Feels like they blatantly ripped that off the title of a Cory Doctorow book [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Internet_Con https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Internet_Con
- swiftcoder 2mo agoWoof. What's that going to cost? And will we actually be able to buy one, because the 128GB model has been sold out pretty much since the LLM craze started...
- paxys 2mo agoIf you have to ask you don’t want to know
- agilob 2mo agoIt's competition is M5 Ultra, not cheap.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- andy99 2mo agoRumored M5 ultra bandwidth is apparently 1100 GB/S (M3 Ultra is something like 880). This is 276 GB/S so they’re not really in the same league unfortunately. This will be considerably cheaper though.
- swiftcoder 2mo agoI have a feeling the M5 ultra is going to stay in the realm of myth until RAM prices come back down to earth...
- nrp 2mo agoWe can't share pricing yet, but certainly will before we open orders. The 128GB has been selling well, and we just re-opened orders with stock landing within two weeks.
- artisinal 2mo agoI understand their reasoning but it’s still a shame Framework opted for a proprietary motherboard instead of mini-ITX with a socket CPU and GPU. I value repairability over a little bit of extra performance.
- culopatin 2mo agoWhat’s stopping you from building that yourself instead of having to go through Framework?
- delfinom 2mo agoFramework is going for a computer OEM market where they need to make margin, hence the soldered-on components and relatively limited options. People in the pre-built computer market overwhelmingly don't care about replaceable components, because anyone else will just buy components and build a PC, for both the greater market of options AND overall lower price than buying pre-built (if they don't overspec).
- throwuxiytayq 2mo agoYou literally can't make this machine without soldered components. You don't understand this computer's design goals. It's been 1.5 years since they announced the Framework Desktop. I don't get how people are still confused about this.
- DHowett 2mo agoBased on the product spec sheet[1] it appears that the Framework Desktop motherboard is mini-ITX, and that the chassis is[2] as well. It’s fully possible that I’ve missed something, but it doesn’t appear to be proprietary to me. [1]: https://frame.work/desktop?tab=specs https://frame.work/desktop?tab=specs [2]: https://frame.work/products/desktop-case https://frame.work/products/desktop-case
- artisinal 2mo agoI’m unable to pass the human test on those links but if it’s true mini-ITX including standardized USB and IO headers that’s pretty cool!
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- paxys 2mo agoRyzen AI Max Plus Pro 495 How does a CEO read this and not immediately fire their entire marketing team?
- gentlewater 2mo agoI know right. Where’s the «Elite»?
- ethbr1 2mo agoWhat is this, Dwarf Fortress?
- soggybread 2mo agoDon't forget the X's as well, i'm looking at you Amd RX 7900XTX
- stasomatic 2mo agoRyzen AI Max Plus Pro Ultra Light Air (not craft)
- cmrdporcupine 2mo agoMore numbers and letters and phrases = more excite! much customer!
- kryptiskt 2mo agoBecause it was the CEOs idea?
- esskay 2mo agoAgreed, what the heck were they thinking, it's obvious it should've been Ryzen AI Max Plus Pro Ultra 495.
- npn 2mo agoAI means it has npu, Max+ is marking the memory channel, PRO is a normal label for chips that have extra security baked in, it has been this way since forever. I don't see anything wrong with the name.
- egeozcan 2mo agoI typed my (masked) email into the input, pressed tab and enter, it redirected me to some cloudflare captcha marketing site. I thought at first it didn't want the masked email, but then it worked when I clicked with my mouse. Apparently there are 3 invisible focus targets in between! Dear people who create websites, these things are important, they should work!
- ndriscoll 2mo agoYou shouldn't need to tab first, right? Enter on an input field should submit the form unless they go out of their way to break it?
- egeozcan 2mo agoI think it works only on type text? I tab and enter out of habit, but to be fair, enter without tab works here. But then again (and many will feel I'm being nit-picky but you're just hearing from someone who had to conquer a lot of a11y audits at job, so just let me have different priorities), the whole node gets replaced without any announcement, Voiceover being left clueless about what happened. NVDA would probably be the same, but I'm on vacation and cannot test on windows right now. This is a simple form, not a complicated thing, and it's the website of a company I love, so I'm paying extra attention perhaps.
- nrp 2mo agoI shared this internally, and the team confirmed this is indeed a bug in our email form rendering. We've added it to the development backlog.
- egeozcan 2mo agoThanks for caring, this is really cool hearing from you!
- snvzz 2mo agoNon-ECC memory. And into the trash it goes. Refer to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48969530 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48969530
- woodrowbarlow 2mo agothe thing about ECC memory is that it doesn't support reporting of ECC errors, so it ends up just hiding the fact that your RAM has started to go bad. this is good if you replace RAM every n years, but not if you intend to use the RAM until it starts degrading.
- snvzz 2mo ago>the thing about ECC memory is that it doesn't support reporting of ECC errors Wait that. It does, and that's the point. Although the CPU and motherboard do of course also have to support it, but with AMD it is possible. I do it on a 9800x3d. One bit errors are always both detected and corrected. Multibit errors are mostly at least detected.
- woodrowbarlow 2mo agoas i understand it: that's in-band ECC and if you CPU/mobo support it, you can enable IBECC even on non-ECC RAM. IBECC has overhead, though. ECC RAM has on-die error correction, with corrections taking place before the motherboard ever sees it (and without the performance overhead of IBECC).
- evanjrowley 2mo agoHear me out... What would you say is the likelihood of an LLM hallucination vs. a correctable RAM error?
- snvzz 2mo agoSounds very Whataboutism. This is about the latter, and not just the correctable ones; Detecting them also has worth.
- swader999 2mo agoHere's me wanting to drop thousands on this so I can save a few bucks a day by not having to call cloud llms for simple distillation tasks. Lol.
- christkv 2mo agoIt’s a fantastic dev box i got the framework desktop and its awesome as a developer desktop
- parsimo2010 2mo agoTl;dr: think hard about what you’d use this much RAM for in a desktop setting and do some research about how people like the 395 for your use case. Not all use cases work well. Anyone who thinks they are going to serve some 100+ GB LLM locally, remember that memory bandwidth becomes a key limitation for large models. While you might be able to load a model, token generation can be very slow. MoE models like Qwen3.5-122B-A10B work decently fast, but dense models of a decent size are slow and you won’t want to use them. I’ve got a 395 system, and found that I’m quite happy with Qwen3.6-35B-A3B, generating at around 50 t/s, but the dense 27B model is 20-25 t/s and that’s the lower limit I’m willing to tolerate. So a 70b dense model is just not going to happen. That means you can’t really use that much RAM. A reasonable use case is to have multiple smaller models loaded- you can have an image generation model loaded along with the text model. Or you can use this computer for development simultaneously with serving LLMs. Those ideas work okay. But trying to load up a single giant model is going to test your patience.
- esseph 2mo ago> A reasonable use case is to have multiple smaller models loaded- you can have an image generation model loaded along with the text model. Lemonade server updated yesterday for an Arena model / ai routing. --- The Lemonade local AI server allows easily deploying LLM workloads across Ryzen AI NPUs, Radeon GPUs, and CPUs with ease under both Windows and Linux. The most significant change with Lemonade 11.5 is the completion of the Lemonade Router that can be used for automatically routing queries to relevant models based on defined policies -- or even LLM-as-a-router for using a small LLM to in turn determine which model to route a particular request. The Lemonade Router allows steering requests based on rule, classifier, semantic similarity, or LLM-as-router policies. The policies are defined in JSON files or can also be authored via the Lemonade GUI. More details on these router capabilities can be found via this commit. Lemonade 11.5 also introduces a server-side job engine to let clients post multi-step recipes and managing them via /jobs endpoints. From these endpoints the muilti-step recipes can be paused / interrupted / resumed / deleted. And another one is that the lemond daemon can now act as an MCP client host to connect external stdio MCP servers. https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-Lemonade-11.5 https://www.phoronix.com/news/AMD-Lemonade-11.5 https://lemonade-server.ai/ https://lemonade-server.ai/
- kibwen 2mo agoSomewhat on-topic, if anyone here's received their Framework 13 Pro yet (which I believe began shipping this month), I'd be happy to hear a first-hand review.
- fleventynine 2mo agoThis machine needs better networking options to be useful, such as built-in 100Gbit QSFP28. There is not enough space between the x4 PCIe slot and the power supply for a NIC to fit, and even if there was, you'd have to cut a hole in the back of the case to get at it.
- binary132 2mo agoWhat LLM / image / video models would this allow people to self-host that are worth it at the presumably somewhat low speed?
- grigio 2mo agoI'll wait for the AMD Zen6 Pro Max Ultra Elite model