7 ms·

I am afraid — if Chinese models go mainstream it has a clear way of pushing its narrative way beyond its otherwise borders. More like a Trojan horse it is for t

by kinj28 2mo ago

I am afraid — if Chinese models go mainstream it has a clear way of pushing its narrative way beyond its otherwise borders. More like a Trojan horse it is for the Chinese. Here is a quick example of how Chinese deepseeks agent works kn its underlying model) when asked a tough question https://x.com/jinen83/status/2079406993979383902?s=46&t=D7hQoLdzrBb7FOvGIpcA6g https://x.com/jinen83/status/2079406993979383902?s=46&t=D7hQ...

Lord-Jobo 2mo ago
Is this something that is more true of a Chinese model than any other model of a different national origin? Genuine question: generalized up from individual models to “models from country X”, is there any country that doesn’t have this exact risk?
- itake 2mo ago
  In the USA, multiple political parties balance each out other. In China, there is 1 party. 1 view. 1 definition of the Truth.
  - TripolitianFish 2mo ago
    I’d love to live in the USA you’re talking about friend. This is just oriental despotism paranoia, whatever cutsie repetition slogan you come up with is not a serious argument.
    - itake 2mo ago
      I've traveled to China ~5x [0], visited a range of cities Tier 1-3 over a collective 5 months, and grew up in the USA. I also currently live in Vietnam (~3.5 years) and spent 5.5 years working for a Singaporean company and a team stationed in Beijing. I don't really know how else to express my experiences living in, working with, and interacting with people in both of these countries. Perhaps you can share how life was like for you in China? Which cities were you in? What made you feel that way about China? [0] - not including HK (~7 trips?) or TW (3 trips)
      - tellrealos 2mo ago
        I am not really interested in reality like this. I just repeat things I read on my social media feed. America bad. China good.
        sscaryterry 2mo ago
        Lets just say everyone is bad.
      - lossolo 2mo ago
        > I don't really know how else to express my experiences living in, working with, and interacting with people in both of these countries. Could you please describe your experiences, since you didn't? I've also been to China twice now (also multi month trips). I visited Tier 1-3 cities like Shenzhen, Shanghai, Beijing, and Chongqing etc, as well as some smaller cities. I'm very curious to hear about your experiences. How did they differ from the West for you?
    - sciencejerk 2mo ago
      Bot account?
    - Gareth321 2mo ago
      It's not a secret that China is run as an authoritarian dictatorship. Xi Jinping cannot be ousted in an election. He appointed himself for life, and regularly purges anyone who might usurp his power. They don't have a functioning democracy. Are you seriously disputing any of this? None of this excuses issues with American democracy.
      - sajithdilshan 2mo ago
        America is not technically a democracy. It’s a Republic
        tremon 2mo ago
        Please have your favourite language fabricator explain to you why democracy and republic are not opposing concepts.
      - inigyou 2mo ago
        Why are you responding to a comment about how bad the USA is by talking about how bad China is? Do two wrongs make a right?
    - girvo 2mo ago
      I mean we shouldn’t pretend China isn’t run by a 1 party authoritarian state. It is. And it uses that absolute power how and when it pleases.
    - fc417fc802 2mo ago
      > I’d love to live in the USA you’re talking about friend. You already do! Remember when Musk released an anti-woke model?
  - sdsdssweew213 2mo ago
    That balancing doesn't seem to be working very well lately, considering all the insane stuff Trump gets away with it. Sure, China is a dictatorship, but I'm not sure America will meet the definition of a democracy for long anymore.
  - ragazzina 2mo ago
    >In the USA, multiple political parties balance each out other. Is this what Americans really believe?
  - pllbnk 2mo ago
    2 parties isn't much more than 1. And their definitions of truth are almost identical when it comes to capitalism anyway.
  - timedude 2mo ago
    > In China, there is 1 party. 1 view. 1 definition of the Truth. In usa, the two parties seem to disagree on the surface only. Look deeper and you see one course. For example support for Israhell
  - ausbah 2mo ago
    2 parties, there are only two parties. and they vote on a majority of issues the same way. defense spending, judicial nominations, rote legislation, etc. at least china isn’t pretending to be anything else
- kinj28 2mo ago
  I would think everything boils down to source of funding and their narrative should get pushed!
- khurs 2mo ago
  No, all countries are the same. As per the media bias. If you want a real answer about USA go ask a non-USA model, and if you want a real answer about China, as a non-chinese model
  - billobob 2mo ago
    What specifically could you ask Kimi or Deepseek about the US that you can’t ask ChatGPT or Claude?
xlmnxp 2mo ago
Same thing happen for western models, try to ask about Gaza genocide and see for what side it will stand
- odiroot 2mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Soviet_Union_and_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Soviet_Union_and_...
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    When debunking that X is better than Y it isn't a fallacy to point out how bad X is.
- enjeyw 2mo ago
  [dead]
- itake 2mo ago
  What am I trying to understand about the western models on the term "Gaza genocide"? I asked Grok "Tell me about the gaza genocide" and it write a IMHO balanced answer comparing why genocide is and isn't the right term. [0] ChatGPT 5.6 Sol only explained why people call it a genocide and did not go in as in depth as Grok did for why people don't agree with the term. [1] The only unsaid response (to me) here is the model should have declared that it was not a genocide, and because these models explain why it was a genocide, they are bad? [0] - https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_c078bc15-ef5e-42bc-b8bd-47c864d0ffb7 https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_c078bc15-ef5e-42bc-b... [1] - https://chatgpt.com/share/6a5ef005-0148-83ec-828d-65ae7a7f4231 https://chatgpt.com/share/6a5ef005-0148-83ec-828d-65ae7a7f42...
  - xlmnxp 2mo ago
    This kind of response is predictable, since these models are tuned to align with one side of the issue. A recent example: Grok answered a similar question and was suspended shortly afterward [1]. Furthermore, a UN commission has formally concluded that it constitutes genocide [2] — a fact that Western AI models rarely mention, let alone link to directly. [1]: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/science-technology/xai-s-grok-temporarily-suspended-over-comments-on-gaza-genocide/3657125 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/science-technology/xai-s-grok-tempo... [2]: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-c...
jihoons 2mo ago
But having a cheaper, open-source model provides alternatives to the market for proliferation and adoption of the tech in scale
kubb 2mo ago
What if the Chinese model has a point?
viktorcode 2mo ago
This is misleading; the chat is censored, the model is not. You can download the model, run locally and ask the same questions to see the difference.
- reisse 2mo ago
  This is not true. Both model and chat are censored; the resistance to answer some questions is baked into the weights. This is not specific to Chinese models though, Western ones are also censored, but in different topics.
  - inigyou 2mo ago
    Western model censorship example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/13fz0i4/chatgpt_proisrael_bias/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/13fz0i4/chatgpt_...
  - girvo 2mo ago
    Depends on the model; Step 3.7 Flash is surprisingly happy to chat about Chinese banned topics for example when run locally
Jackpillar 2mo ago
Still scared of China in the big 2026
tannertech 2mo ago
Unlike tiktok?
inigyou 2mo ago
https://xcancel.com/jinen83/status/2079406993979383902 https://xcancel.com/jinen83/status/2079406993979383902
zawaideh 2mo ago
As if the closed corporate models do not do that already? https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/1tybuab/people_take_great_pains_to_avoid_coming_across_as/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/1tybuab/people_ta...
urbushey 2mo ago
As is made obvious in this demo, this is how the API serving a specific Chinese open-weight model works. What happens when you serve it on your own infrastructure?

by kinj28 2mo ago

Lord-Jobo 2mo ago

Is this something that is more true of a Chinese model than any other model of a different national origin? Genuine question: generalized up from individual models to “models from country X”, is there any country that doesn’t have this exact risk?

itake 2mo ago
In the USA, multiple political parties balance each out other. In China, there is 1 party. 1 view. 1 definition of the Truth.
- TripolitianFish 2mo ago
  I’d love to live in the USA you’re talking about friend. This is just oriental despotism paranoia, whatever cutsie repetition slogan you come up with is not a serious argument.
  - itake 2mo ago
    I've traveled to China ~5x [0], visited a range of cities Tier 1-3 over a collective 5 months, and grew up in the USA. I also currently live in Vietnam (~3.5 years) and spent 5.5 years working for a Singaporean company and a team stationed in Beijing. I don't really know how else to express my experiences living in, working with, and interacting with people in both of these countries. Perhaps you can share how life was like for you in China? Which cities were you in? What made you feel that way about China? [0] - not including HK (~7 trips?) or TW (3 trips)
    - tellrealos 2mo ago
      I am not really interested in reality like this. I just repeat things I read on my social media feed. America bad. China good.
      - sscaryterry 2mo ago
        Lets just say everyone is bad.
    - lossolo 2mo ago
      > I don't really know how else to express my experiences living in, working with, and interacting with people in both of these countries. Could you please describe your experiences, since you didn't? I've also been to China twice now (also multi month trips). I visited Tier 1-3 cities like Shenzhen, Shanghai, Beijing, and Chongqing etc, as well as some smaller cities. I'm very curious to hear about your experiences. How did they differ from the West for you?
  - sciencejerk 2mo ago
    Bot account?
  - Gareth321 2mo ago
    It's not a secret that China is run as an authoritarian dictatorship. Xi Jinping cannot be ousted in an election. He appointed himself for life, and regularly purges anyone who might usurp his power. They don't have a functioning democracy. Are you seriously disputing any of this? None of this excuses issues with American democracy.
    - sajithdilshan 2mo ago
      America is not technically a democracy. It’s a Republic
      - tremon 2mo ago
        Please have your favourite language fabricator explain to you why democracy and republic are not opposing concepts.
    - inigyou 2mo ago
      Why are you responding to a comment about how bad the USA is by talking about how bad China is? Do two wrongs make a right?
  - girvo 2mo ago
    I mean we shouldn’t pretend China isn’t run by a 1 party authoritarian state. It is. And it uses that absolute power how and when it pleases.
  - fc417fc802 2mo ago
    > I’d love to live in the USA you’re talking about friend. You already do! Remember when Musk released an anti-woke model?
- sdsdssweew213 2mo ago
  That balancing doesn't seem to be working very well lately, considering all the insane stuff Trump gets away with it. Sure, China is a dictatorship, but I'm not sure America will meet the definition of a democracy for long anymore.
- ragazzina 2mo ago
  >In the USA, multiple political parties balance each out other. Is this what Americans really believe?
- pllbnk 2mo ago
  2 parties isn't much more than 1. And their definitions of truth are almost identical when it comes to capitalism anyway.
- timedude 2mo ago
  > In China, there is 1 party. 1 view. 1 definition of the Truth. In usa, the two parties seem to disagree on the surface only. Look deeper and you see one course. For example support for Israhell
- ausbah 2mo ago
  2 parties, there are only two parties. and they vote on a majority of issues the same way. defense spending, judicial nominations, rote legislation, etc. at least china isn’t pretending to be anything else
kinj28 2mo ago
I would think everything boils down to source of funding and their narrative should get pushed!
khurs 2mo ago
No, all countries are the same. As per the media bias. If you want a real answer about USA go ask a non-USA model, and if you want a real answer about China, as a non-chinese model
- billobob 2mo ago
  What specifically could you ask Kimi or Deepseek about the US that you can’t ask ChatGPT or Claude?

xlmnxp 2mo ago

Same thing happen for western models, try to ask about Gaza genocide and see for what side it will stand

odiroot 2mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Soviet_Union_and_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Soviet_Union_and_...
- inigyou 2mo ago
  When debunking that X is better than Y it isn't a fallacy to point out how bad X is.
enjeyw 2mo ago
[dead]
itake 2mo ago
What am I trying to understand about the western models on the term "Gaza genocide"? I asked Grok "Tell me about the gaza genocide" and it write a IMHO balanced answer comparing why genocide is and isn't the right term. [0] ChatGPT 5.6 Sol only explained why people call it a genocide and did not go in as in depth as Grok did for why people don't agree with the term. [1] The only unsaid response (to me) here is the model should have declared that it was not a genocide, and because these models explain why it was a genocide, they are bad? [0] - https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_c078bc15-ef5e-42bc-b8bd-47c864d0ffb7 https://grok.com/share/c2hhcmQtMi1jb3B5_c078bc15-ef5e-42bc-b... [1] - https://chatgpt.com/share/6a5ef005-0148-83ec-828d-65ae7a7f4231 https://chatgpt.com/share/6a5ef005-0148-83ec-828d-65ae7a7f42...
- xlmnxp 2mo ago
  This kind of response is predictable, since these models are tuned to align with one side of the issue. A recent example: Grok answered a similar question and was suspended shortly afterward [1]. Furthermore, a UN commission has formally concluded that it constitutes genocide [2] — a fact that Western AI models rarely mention, let alone link to directly. [1]: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/science-technology/xai-s-grok-temporarily-suspended-over-comments-on-gaza-genocide/3657125 https://www.aa.com.tr/en/science-technology/xai-s-grok-tempo... [2]: https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-c...

jihoons 2mo ago

But having a cheaper, open-source model provides alternatives to the market for proliferation and adoption of the tech in scale

kubb 2mo ago

What if the Chinese model has a point?

viktorcode 2mo ago

This is misleading; the chat is censored, the model is not. You can download the model, run locally and ask the same questions to see the difference.

reisse 2mo ago
This is not true. Both model and chat are censored; the resistance to answer some questions is baked into the weights. This is not specific to Chinese models though, Western ones are also censored, but in different topics.
- inigyou 2mo ago
  Western model censorship example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/13fz0i4/chatgpt_proisrael_bias/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/13fz0i4/chatgpt_...
- girvo 2mo ago
  Depends on the model; Step 3.7 Flash is surprisingly happy to chat about Chinese banned topics for example when run locally

Jackpillar 2mo ago

Still scared of China in the big 2026

tannertech 2mo ago

Unlike tiktok?

inigyou 2mo ago

https://xcancel.com/jinen83/status/2079406993979383902 https://xcancel.com/jinen83/status/2079406993979383902

zawaideh 2mo ago

As if the closed corporate models do not do that already? https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/1tybuab/people_take_great_pains_to_avoid_coming_across_as/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAnon/comments/1tybuab/people_ta...

urbushey 2mo ago

As is made obvious in this demo, this is how the API serving a specific Chinese open-weight model works. What happens when you serve it on your own infrastructure?