9 ms·

Where I live, we have a small park, 500m away. You need to walk through it if you want to get to the city center from the small neighborhood we live in. To prot

by Loic 2mo ago

Where I live, we have a small park, 500m away. You need to walk through it if you want to get to the city center from the small neighborhood we live in. To protect the wildlife, the lighting system has presence sensors, so as you walk or bicycle through the park, the way/street lighting turns on, you can walk, and just after you, it turns dark again. Really cool, especially the first time I went through it in the middle of the night.

fhdkweig 2mo ago
Those things drive me nuts. There is a walking path that I frequent, and I can't use it at night because they are spaced every 20-30 feet. When I am not under them, they are off and my eyes adjust to the darkness and as I pass under one it flips to full daytime brightness and blinds me. As soon as I walk away from it, everything goes dark again, but my eyes had adjusted to the daytime brightness of the lamps. And I know that in 30 feet, I have to do it again, for the next couple of miles.
- Loic 2mo ago
  The timing and brightness is well adjusted, it feels natural, like a friendly ghost taking care of you.
  - RetroTechie 2mo ago
    Your Park May Vary (YPMV).
  - fch42 2mo ago
    unfortunately they never are. Brightness-adjusted, that is. Everyone installing lighting fixtures these days believes they must be daylight-level bright. The only ghosts you see are afterimages if you happen to look straight at the streetlamp ... (I find it odd; dark-adapted eyes see a lot, including movement in shadows or low-contrast obstacles - after all, our bodies know how to see well at moonlight levels of illumination. Why are we so keen to kill this ability?)
    - arijun 2mo ago
      Because 1) Humans night vision is significantly worse than your regular vision. Low light would cause more accidents, eg. 2) The elderly have pretty terrible night vision. Your idea would exclude them from half the day.
      - fhdkweig 2mo ago
        The elderly don't generally go to the park for a midnight stroll. Nighttime is the realm of the young.
        arijun 2mo ago
        What? When sunset is at 5pm you want to lock the elderly up in their homes? What about those that have trouble sleeping, like many do? Or those that wake up before sunrise? This is the kind of thinking that leads to totally inaccessible cities.
        fhdkweig 2mo ago
        If you want to go for a walk in the park in the middle of the night and can't see without a light, BRING A FLASHLIGHT. That's just basic safety. You never know when a power outage will strike. If you are 100% dependent on artificial light, the safest thing to do is bring your own.
        duskdozer 2mo ago
        Excessively bright and excessively blue lighting can also be inaccessible.
vel0city 2mo ago
If it gets used a good bit, I wonder if the on/off cycles are even more impactful to the local wildlife than constant but more optimized lighting was in place. I know if I was trying to sleep a constant source of light is easier to get used to than a randomly flashing source of light. And for nocturnal animals I'd imagine randomly losing the cover of darkness from time to time is probably a lot more stressful than just avoiding the brighter areas. I'd be interested in seeing data. I really wonder which is better.
trollbridge 2mo ago
Wouldn't it be more reasonable to just expect people who want to walk places in the dead of night to wear a headlamp? They're cheap, easy to recharge, and can be adjusted for various brightness levels.
- wongarsu 2mo ago
  People associate a lack of lighting with crime I vaguely remember that studies showed that lack of streetlights does not create crime, but the crime that happens anyways prefers badly lit areas. But from a pedestrian's perspective that's not much relief, you'd still avoid those areas. Which is not what a city planner has in mind for a park
  - stouset 2mo ago
    Also part of the issue is that lighting at night creates enormous contrast between dark areas. Even darkness is something our eyes are well-adapted to, and we can see surprisingly well with even a little moonlight. We struggle with alternating bright/dark areas.
- fhdkweig 2mo ago
  I would consider that ideal, but there would always be the fear of a potential negligence lawsuit if someone got hurt or crimed, so the government considers them necessary.
- amiga386 2mo ago
  The problem is not just with people who want to walk places, but people who want to mug/murder/rape those that do. As an example, in the UK, councils are expected to light commonly-traveled paths, both so path users can see where they're going, and to reduce crime. Unlit paths in city parks are still traversed, and are often a haven for crime. "Dead of night" isn't the right image. 5PM in winter with clouds (as is typical in the UK) has roughly the same level of natural light as 2AM. People are still coming home from work in conditions where natural light is low enough to lead to accidents and crime.
  - 2mo ago
snarf21 2mo ago
Serious question: Wouldn't it be better to just have them always be on with red light that is much less disruptive to wildlife?
- adrian_b 2mo ago
  The sodium lamps that were ubiquitous for outdoor lighting before LEDs were quite good from this point of view. Amber LEDs could provide a similar experience.
redlewel 2mo ago
Would prefer very dim or red lighting. Also preserves your night vision

by Loic 2mo ago

fhdkweig 2mo ago

Those things drive me nuts. There is a walking path that I frequent, and I can't use it at night because they are spaced every 20-30 feet. When I am not under them, they are off and my eyes adjust to the darkness and as I pass under one it flips to full daytime brightness and blinds me. As soon as I walk away from it, everything goes dark again, but my eyes had adjusted to the daytime brightness of the lamps. And I know that in 30 feet, I have to do it again, for the next couple of miles.

Loic 2mo ago
The timing and brightness is well adjusted, it feels natural, like a friendly ghost taking care of you.
- RetroTechie 2mo ago
  Your Park May Vary (YPMV).
- fch42 2mo ago
  unfortunately they never are. Brightness-adjusted, that is. Everyone installing lighting fixtures these days believes they must be daylight-level bright. The only ghosts you see are afterimages if you happen to look straight at the streetlamp ... (I find it odd; dark-adapted eyes see a lot, including movement in shadows or low-contrast obstacles - after all, our bodies know how to see well at moonlight levels of illumination. Why are we so keen to kill this ability?)
  - arijun 2mo ago
    Because 1) Humans night vision is significantly worse than your regular vision. Low light would cause more accidents, eg. 2) The elderly have pretty terrible night vision. Your idea would exclude them from half the day.
    - fhdkweig 2mo ago
      The elderly don't generally go to the park for a midnight stroll. Nighttime is the realm of the young.
      - arijun 2mo ago
        What? When sunset is at 5pm you want to lock the elderly up in their homes? What about those that have trouble sleeping, like many do? Or those that wake up before sunrise? This is the kind of thinking that leads to totally inaccessible cities.
        fhdkweig 2mo ago
        If you want to go for a walk in the park in the middle of the night and can't see without a light, BRING A FLASHLIGHT. That's just basic safety. You never know when a power outage will strike. If you are 100% dependent on artificial light, the safest thing to do is bring your own.
        duskdozer 2mo ago
        Excessively bright and excessively blue lighting can also be inaccessible.

vel0city 2mo ago

If it gets used a good bit, I wonder if the on/off cycles are even more impactful to the local wildlife than constant but more optimized lighting was in place. I know if I was trying to sleep a constant source of light is easier to get used to than a randomly flashing source of light. And for nocturnal animals I'd imagine randomly losing the cover of darkness from time to time is probably a lot more stressful than just avoiding the brighter areas. I'd be interested in seeing data. I really wonder which is better.

trollbridge 2mo ago

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to just expect people who want to walk places in the dead of night to wear a headlamp? They're cheap, easy to recharge, and can be adjusted for various brightness levels.

wongarsu 2mo ago
People associate a lack of lighting with crime I vaguely remember that studies showed that lack of streetlights does not create crime, but the crime that happens anyways prefers badly lit areas. But from a pedestrian's perspective that's not much relief, you'd still avoid those areas. Which is not what a city planner has in mind for a park
- stouset 2mo ago
  Also part of the issue is that lighting at night creates enormous contrast between dark areas. Even darkness is something our eyes are well-adapted to, and we can see surprisingly well with even a little moonlight. We struggle with alternating bright/dark areas.
fhdkweig 2mo ago
I would consider that ideal, but there would always be the fear of a potential negligence lawsuit if someone got hurt or crimed, so the government considers them necessary.
amiga386 2mo ago
The problem is not just with people who want to walk places, but people who want to mug/murder/rape those that do. As an example, in the UK, councils are expected to light commonly-traveled paths, both so path users can see where they're going, and to reduce crime. Unlit paths in city parks are still traversed, and are often a haven for crime. "Dead of night" isn't the right image. 5PM in winter with clouds (as is typical in the UK) has roughly the same level of natural light as 2AM. People are still coming home from work in conditions where natural light is low enough to lead to accidents and crime.
- 2mo ago

snarf21 2mo ago

Serious question: Wouldn't it be better to just have them always be on with red light that is much less disruptive to wildlife?

adrian_b 2mo ago
The sodium lamps that were ubiquitous for outdoor lighting before LEDs were quite good from this point of view. Amber LEDs could provide a similar experience.

redlewel 2mo ago

Would prefer very dim or red lighting. Also preserves your night vision